I wonder who looks after the interests of diabetics here
in the USA. I also wonder why a group of activists, who are
either themselves insulin-dependent diabetics or who have such
a person in their family, do not organize themselves into at
least a national (USA) group.
For example, in the UK insulin-dependent diabetics are
organized as the British Diabetic Association (BDA), a group
that really stands up for the interests of diabetics. But in
the USA, we only have the American Diabetic Association which
seems to always side with the commercial interests that
advertize in their monthly publication "Forecast". A new and
different organization is needed here that would be set up more
along the lines of the BDA, for the purpose of protecting the
interests of diabetics themselves rather than furthering the
interests of those who profit from diabetics.
At this juncture of history, the reorganization and
consolidation of the phramaceutical industry is eliminating the
availability of certian kinds of insulin on which a wide variety
of diabetics have relied on for many, many years. This has had
and will have a progressive impact on many of us, as it is a
fact that diabetics vary widely in what works for them. And
it goes without saying that neither pharmaceutical engineers
nor their representatives in the medical profession (the
"endos") have any first hand idea of what diabetics are up
against in their daily struggle to live a productive, active
life.
At this moment, the BDA is conducting a campaign
collecting signatures on petitions to get the International
Insulin Cartel (Lilly/Novo) to resume the manufacture and sale
of the animal insulins that they have recently discontinued,
stating that "diabetics have the right to manage their condition
in the way that best suits them", in effect asserting their
freedom of choice as to method of treatment. There is also a
gentleman (Mr. David G. Groves, the SysOp of Compuserve’s
Diabetes Forum) who is carrying on the same campaign here in
the USA. But instead of doing it under the banner and auspices
of the ADA rather than the BDA, Mr. Groves says that he is going
to "present" his signed petitions to the ADA as well as take
them to the Lilly/Novo cartel. That should tell us something
about whose side the ADA is on, if not demonstrate our complete
lack of organization and representation.
I would appreciate it if you would think about each of the
problems that I have outline here and come back to share your
thoughts with the rest of us. Remember that a famous despot
and enemy of the United States once said that American democracy
was nothing more that a collection of pressure groups. I think
that there may be something to what he said about us being a
nation of pressure groups. It does seem that unless you’re a
member of one, you won’t survive, particularly if you’re
disadvantaged in any way.
Michel Martin Devine
San Diego, California USA
m…@powergrid.electriciti.com
In article <16826.mmd@[198.5.212.8]>
m…@powergrid.electriciti.com "Michel Martin Devine" writes:
> For example, in the UK insulin-dependent diabetics are
> organized as the British Diabetic Association (BDA),
Out of interest, the BDA represent NIDDM’s, too. And the families and
carers of diabetics of both sorts.
–
—————————————————–
Ian Preece i…@dktower.demon.co.uk
IT Project Specialist Ideas for hire.
—————————————————–
>DATE: 18 Jun 1994 18:49:11 -0500
>FROM: Michel Martin Devine <mmd@[198.5.212.8]>
> I wonder who looks after the interests of diabetics here
>in the USA. I also wonder why a group of activists, who are
>either themselves insulin-dependent diabetics or who have such
>a person in their family, do not organize themselves into at
>least a national (USA) group.
{CHOMP}
Check out the Juvenile Diabetes Foundation, based in New York. It was
founded by the mother of a type I diabetic who finally had it one day
while her son was in the doctor’s office. The story goes that the
doctor had just finished his quarterly checkup, pronouncing the child
"fine in every way" and she blew. He WASN’T fine, he had reactions, he
had high sugar episodes…in effect, he wouldn’t be fine until his
diabetes was cured. The doctor simply sat back, agreed with her and
simply said this was a problem that would go away if they only had some
money to throw at it.
If money was what it took, that was what they were going to get. And
they have. JDF funds research, period. You can trace most of the
"big" advances in treatment to when the org was founded. That’s good
enough for me.
Activism is a personal choice. I think, however, that forming splinter
groups off the two main ones, ADA (which I consider to be a
full-service charity, providing education and support as well as
funding for research) and JDF is not entirely productive. I support
JDF’s efforts as much as I can – but anybody who wants to do something
to eliminate this problem has my vote. You wouldn’t BELIEVE what kind
of money goes into this disease process – from diet to drugs to death.
And you don’t have to do a lot to identify those at risk – all I have
to do is talk about cat toys and I find three more diabetics.
I want this thing outta my face.
I live in one of the AIDS activist capitals of the world – and I can’t
help wonder why we get such short work. WE’VE been around since the
beginning of recorded history – we’ve also suffered discrimination and
persecution – ask husband, who was forced into private school when the
public schools wouldn’t take him. Who couldn’t find a job after
losing one eye and having to explain why. When we discuss having
children, people look at us as if we plan to eat them ourselves. How
could we possible have children with THAT at risk? Gah.
And yes, most diabetics have their plate full just living day to day.
As I said, it’s a personal thing. I prefer to kick butt.
See you at the Walk-a-Thon! (and inbetween ‘thons’, I talk a lot)
***************************************************************
"Some things have to be Believed to be seen."
– Ralph Hodgson (1871-1962)
Donna Hutt-Stapfer * p00…@psilink.com * (909) 983-3907
"Firebug"
In article <2981325543.1.p00…@psilink.com>, "Donna Hutt Stapfer"
<p00…@psilink.com> writes:
>I live in one of the AIDS activist capitals of the world – and I
can’t
help wonder why we get such short work. WE’VE been around since the
beginning of recorded history – we’ve also suffered discrimination
and
persecution…(snipping here)
Donna,
Thank you for an excellent post. I agree wholeheartedly with the
things you wrote. I recently had a very frustrating experience at the
hospital where I work – in discussion with medical personnel. I
repeatedly encounter disbelief and what nearly amounts to calling me
a liar if I say that diabetics are denied health insurance, life
insurance, or are discriminated against in employment siutuations.
There is also a widespread belief that diabetics who develop
complications didn’t take care of themselves – thereby deserving it,
I suppose. I know some of these thoughts may be a defense mechanism
against the horror of it. I have a three year old son who was
diagnosed last fall, and the medical personnel-coworkers who are
parents struggled to come up with reasons why my son developed it and
their children will not.
Most of which seemed to be that I didn’t feed him in a healthy enough
manner, or some other parenting technique which I failed in. I have
been aghast at the ignorance and blaming-the-victim I have
encountered in medical professionals. A psychologist we were seeing
after Ben was diagnosed provided the explanation for their need to
defend themselves from the possibility of it happening to them (by
blaming us).
In spite of that I was very hurt and angered by the treatment I felt
I received. And I still get very frustrated with the disbelief that a
person with diabetes may encounter discrimination or loss of
insurance.
So, thanks for the validation – it helped me to read your post.
I also am very involved with JDF and believe in educational activism.
Laurie
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
> insurance, or are discriminated against in employment siutuations.
> There is also a widespread belief that diabetics who develop
> complications didn’t take care of themselves – thereby deserving it,
> I suppose. I know some of these thoughts may be a defense mechanism
> against the horror of it. I have a three year old son who was
> diagnosed last fall, and the medical personnel-coworkers who are
> parents struggled to come up with reasons why my son developed it and
> their children will not.
> Most of which seemed to be that I didn’t feed him in a healthy enough
> manner, or some other parenting technique which I failed in. I have
> been aghast at the ignorance and blaming-the-victim I have
> encountered in medical professionals. A psychologist we were seeing
> after Ben was diagnosed provided the explanation for their need to
> defend themselves from the possibility of it happening to them (by
> blaming us).
> In spite of that I was very hurt and angered by the treatment I felt
> I received. And I still get very frustrated with the disbelief that a
> person with diabetes may encounter discrimination or loss of
> insurance.
> So, thanks for the validation – it helped me to read your post.
> I also am very involved with JDF and believe in educational activism.
> Laurie
I see the same attitude toward cancer patients (not alal the time and it’s
not overt, but it’s there. I think people want to believe in a formula:
if I have a good attitude, the "good" cells will be stronger and overcome
the
"bad" cells. Cancer patients get sick because they have a "bad" attitude;
don’t believe, or some other such rationale. We don’t want to accept the
total lack of security and randomness of life. Is insurance denied to
diabetics who are diagnosed later in life Type II; I assume it is if they
switch jobs. Sort of a new form of industrial serfdom.
LMHoltz (lmho…@aol.com) wrote:
: In article <2981325543.1.p00…@psilink.com>, "Donna Hutt Stapfer"
: <p00…@psilink.com> writes:
: >I live in one of the AIDS activist capitals of the world – and I
: can’t
: help wonder why we get such short work. WE’VE been around since the
: beginning of recorded history – we’ve also suffered discrimination
: and
: persecution…(snipping here)
: Donna,
: Thank you for an excellent post. I agree wholeheartedly with the
: things you wrote. I recently had a very frustrating experience at the
: hospital where I work – in discussion with medical personnel. I
: repeatedly encounter disbelief and what nearly amounts to calling me
: a liar if I say that diabetics are denied health insurance, life
: insurance, or are discriminated against in employment siutuations.
: There is also a widespread belief that diabetics who develop
: complications didn’t take care of themselves – thereby deserving it,
: I suppose. I know some of these thoughts may be a defense mechanism
: against the horror of it. I have a three year old son who was
: diagnosed last fall, and the medical personnel-coworkers who are
: parents struggled to come up with reasons why my son developed it and
: their children will not.
: Most of which seemed to be that I didn’t feed him in a healthy enough
: manner, or some other parenting technique which I failed in. I have
: been aghast at the ignorance and blaming-the-victim I have
: encountered in medical professionals. A psychologist we were seeing
: after Ben was diagnosed provided the explanation for their need to
: defend themselves from the possibility of it happening to them (by
: blaming us).
: In spite of that I was very hurt and angered by the treatment I felt
: I received. And I still get very frustrated with the disbelief that a
: person with diabetes may encounter discrimination or loss of
: insurance.
: So, thanks for the validation – it helped me to read your post.
: I also am very involved with JDF and believe in educational activism.
: Laurie
DHS-> : help wonder why we get such short work. WE’VE been around since
-> the : beginning of recorded history – we’ve also suffered
-> discrimination
Agreed.. having observed diabetic complication progression in a loved
one over 25 years, I conclude diabetes is worse than aids..
The case is probably about average to worse, in the scale of things.
Laurie, Can you tell me something about Ben’s use of sweets before the
type 1 hit ? I’ve noted, perhaps erroneously, that type 1′s (teenage)
have patterns where they loved sugar (straight, as cereal, etc). Have
theory that the revving of the pancreas under sugar OD causes it to be
vulnerable .. to the alleged virus or whatever..
I know this is a sensitive question.. but I believe diabetes will be
stopped, or can be stopped, by two cultural changes.. I’ll feel good
when the kids get apples and raw peanuts on Halloween, and candy is
considered turkey.. That’s one of the changes..
Regards. Bill
In article <6f.159.1…@wdn.com>, bill.cu…@wdn.com (Bill Cuneo) writes:
…Snip
> I’ve noted, perhaps erroneously, that type 1′s (teenage)
> have patterns where they loved sugar (straight, as cereal, etc).
… Stuff deleted
> I know this is a sensitive question.. but I believe diabetes will be
> stopped, or can be stopped, by two cultural changes.. I’ll feel good
> when the kids get apples and raw peanuts on Halloween, and candy is
> considered turkey.. That’s one of the changes..
> Regards. Bill
Bill,
Far be it from me to disagree with the value of apples and raw peanuts over
candy. But I do think I provide a counter example to your "theory."
I was raised in a health conscious family. While candy and sugar weren’t
obliterated they were severely limited. My mother baked our bread and we
canned our own fruits and vegetables with significantly less sugar than the
store bought varieties. We usually raised our own vegetables or bought them
from other farms in the community. I was also a vegetarian (still am).
I was diagnosed a diabetic about March, 1966, about six months after my
thirteenth birthday, after I lost over 30 pounds in less than a month.
I lost two pounds the day I entered the hospital.
Orville R. Butler
>In article <6f.159.1…@wdn.com>, bill.cu…@wdn.com (Bill Cuneo) writes:
>…Snip
>> I’ve noted, perhaps erroneously, that type 1′s (teenage)
>> have patterns where they loved sugar (straight, as cereal, etc).
>… Stuff deleted
>> I know this is a sensitive question.. but I believe diabetes will be
>> stopped, or can be stopped, by two cultural changes.. I’ll feel good
>> when the kids get apples and raw peanuts on Halloween, and candy is
>> considered turkey.. That’s one of the changes..
As it now stands, I know of no research that shows any correlation between
amounts of sugar consumed and incidence of diabetes. (I’m sorry, I can’t
cite specific sources at this time, but it has been discussed previously
in Diabetes Forecast at one time or another)
A circuitous path *may* be traced from excessive caloric consumption to
obesity to Type II incidence, but that is not directly a function of sugar
consumption either.
If anyone has conflicting information (scientific, not anecdotal), please
feel free to enlighten me.
–
Robert C. Biggs rob…@utdallas.edu
———————
God put me on Earth to accomplish a certain number of things.
Right now, I am so far behind, I will never die.
No, it’s not. Living as long as we do is one cause for adult onset:
pregnancy causes gestational diabetes: and juvenile onset, which is
often referred to as Type I, seems to be rooted in an auto-immune
process that destroys beta cells. To lay it all on sugar is like
saying we wouldn’t get run over by buses if we ate all our vegetables.
Now, there are plenty of *other* reasons to avoid too much sugar, and
some adult onset diabetes is clearly caused by obesity or aggravated
by our terrible diets. In fact, mild diabetes or hypoglycemia can be
treated entirely by diet and exercise. But until the juvenile onset
case is handled or cured, we will always have plenty of profoundly
diabetic people.
Nico Garcia
ra…@athena.mit.edu
> In article <6f.159.1…@wdn.com>, bill.cu…@wdn.com (Bill Cuneo) writes:
> …Snip
> > I’ve noted, perhaps erroneously, that type 1′s (teenage)
> > have patterns where they loved sugar (straight, as cereal, etc).
> … Stuff deleted
> > I know this is a sensitive question.. but I believe diabetes will be
> > stopped, or can be stopped, by two cultural changes.. I’ll feel good
> > when the kids get apples and raw peanuts on Halloween, and candy is
> > considered turkey.. That’s one of the changes..
> > Regards. Bill
Bill,
Frankly I dont understand how the other readers of and responders to your
comments have managed to be so polite.
Your qualification of "perhaps erroneously" is an understatement.
I specifically remember that when I was diagnosed (sixteen years ago) the
Doctors etc were espeacially careful to enform me that in no way did my
having diabetes have anything to do my previous sugar consumption. I
imagine these attempts were made for many reasons – 1) because it is fact
and 2) because the last thing a (truly juvinile)Juvinile Diabetic needs is
guilt!!!
In fact I believe that this myth was corrected in the "common
misunderstandings" section of numerous pamphlets I have seen.
Also understand, Bill, that Type 1 diabetics are certainly not always
teenagers – they can be newborn infants up to any age.
I urge you to read and learn more truth about diabetes since often times
public ignorance is one of the largest obstacles we have we have to
overcome!!!!!
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
>>>>>>>The anger in this reply is only *my* true feeling so dont take it for >>>>>>>anything more – Thanx for allowing me to write
>>>>>>>Andy
In article <2uvgub$…@lynx.unm.edu>, (Andy McDaniel) writes:
>Also understand, Bill, that Type 1 diabetics are certainly not
always
teenagers – they can be newborn infants up to any age.
Thanks, Andy. By the way, Bill, Ben was 2 at diagnosis and I think it
may have had something to do with his high titer of anti-islet-cell
antibodies.
I meant to answer your question but forgot.
Laurie
In article <2uvgub$…@lynx.unm.edu> (Andy McDaniel) writes:
>I specifically remember that when I was diagnosed (sixteen years ago) the
>Doctors etc were espeacially careful to enform me that in no way did my
>having diabetes have anything to do my previous sugar consumption. I
>imagine these attempts were made for many reasons – 1) because it is fact
>and 2) because the last thing a (truly juvinile)Juvinile Diabetic needs is
>guilt!!!
My child was a heavy sugar user before diabetes was diagnosed, but isn’t
that a *symptom* of untreated diabetes rather than a cause?
Dirk
My information is different. People from Yemen, who emigrated to Israel had
very low incidences of diabetes. Coming to Israel and getting used to Western
food, full of carbohydrates, increased the rate of incidence of diabetes
to equal the same percentage as the normal population. Thus, whereas the
newly arrivals did not show symptoms of diabetes, Yemenites who lived in Israel
many years were as likely to develop diabetes as other Israelis.
Rachel
In article <2uuj1m$…@news.utdallas.edu>, rob…@utdallas.edu (Robert C Biggs) writes…
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
>>In article <6f.159.1…@wdn.com>, bill.cu…@wdn.com (Bill Cuneo) writes:
>>…Snip
>>> I’ve noted, perhaps erroneously, that type 1′s (teenage)
>>> have patterns where they loved sugar (straight, as cereal, etc).
>>… Stuff deleted
>>> I know this is a sensitive question.. but I believe diabetes will be
>>> stopped, or can be stopped, by two cultural changes.. I’ll feel good
>>> when the kids get apples and raw peanuts on Halloween, and candy is
>>> considered turkey.. That’s one of the changes..
>As it now stands, I know of no research that shows any correlation between
>amounts of sugar consumed and incidence of diabetes. (I’m sorry, I can’t
>cite specific sources at this time, but it has been discussed previously
>in Diabetes Forecast at one time or another)
>A circuitous path *may* be traced from excessive caloric consumption to
>obesity to Type II incidence, but that is not directly a function of sugar
>consumption either.
>If anyone has conflicting information (scientific, not anecdotal), please
>feel free to enlighten me.
>–
>Robert C. Biggs rob…@utdallas.edu
>———————
>God put me on Earth to accomplish a certain number of things.
>Right now, I am so far behind, I will never die.
There are *way* too many factors to attribute it to sugar in the
Yemen/Israel example you give. For one thing, I suspect that you are
examining adult onset diabetes, which can be reduced/prevented by diet
and exercise. Second, for juvenile onset (often called Type I these
days), there seems to be a contagious factor, possibly a flu virus,
causing an auto-immune problem. If Yemenese were never exposed to flu
before, and suddenly were upon arrival in Israel, that would account
for even juvenile onset cases.
Last, what happened to Yemenese diabetics before their emigration? If
they just died due to lack of treatment, then of *course* they found
more diabetics upon moving. They lived long enough to be
discovered….
I don’t disbelieve your results, but I question these additional factors.
That’s the problem with drawing cause and effect from general trends.
Nico Garcia
ra…@athena.mit.edu
masch…@kineret.huji.ac.il wrote:
: My information is different. People from Yemen, who emigrated to Israel had
: very low incidences of diabetes. Coming to Israel and getting used to Western
: food, full of carbohydrates, increased the rate of incidence of diabetes
: to equal the same percentage as the normal population. Thus, whereas the
: newly arrivals did not show symptoms of diabetes, Yemenites who lived in Israel
: many years were as likely to develop diabetes as other Israelis.
: Rachel
Contrary to popular opinion, Western diets probably have a lower
percentage of carbohydrate than diets in other areas. Western diets are
higher in fat, protein, and total calories.
<Sigh> It’s amazing how the misconceptions about those debbil carbos
continue to haunt us.
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
In article <RAOUL.94Jul2165…@marinara.mit.edu>, ra…@athena.mit.edu (Nico Garcia) writes…
>There are *way* too many factors to attribute it to sugar in the
>Yemen/Israel example you give. For one thing, I suspect that you are
>examining adult onset diabetes, which can be reduced/prevented by diet
>and exercise. Second, for juvenile onset (often called Type I these
>days), there seems to be a contagious factor, possibly a flu virus,
>causing an auto-immune problem. If Yemenese were never exposed to flu
>before, and suddenly were upon arrival in Israel, that would account
>for even juvenile onset cases.
>Last, what happened to Yemenese diabetics before their emigration? If
>they just died due to lack of treatment, then of *course* they found
>more diabetics upon moving. They lived long enough to be
>discovered….
>I don’t disbelieve your results, but I question these additional factors.
>That’s the problem with drawing cause and effect from general trends.
> Nico Garcia
> ra…@athena.mit.edu
The way I understand it is that at the same time they tested newly arrived
Yemenites for diabetes and compared the results with similar tests done on
yemenites who were in Israel for many years. The tests were probably checking
blood samples for BG.
If my understanding is correct, that answers most of your criticism.
I must admit that I have seen the report on this experiment many years ago,
so my memory may betrey me.
By the way, Statistics can never prove cause and effect. Only correlations.
In article <3JUL199418422…@kineret.huji.ac.il> masch…@kineret.huji.ac.il writes:
The way I understand it is that at the same time they tested newly arrived
Yemenites for diabetes and compared the results with similar tests done on
yemenites who were in Israel for many years. The tests were probably checking
blood samples for BG.
If my understanding is correct, that answers most of your criticism.
I must admit that I have seen the report on this experiment many years ago,
so my memory may betrey me.
Exactly. It seems to confirm my criticism, that while interesting
work, it does *not* establish diet as a cause of increased incidence
of diabetes in these people. Every factor I stated still applies. And
it’s good to see honest descriptions of the data, thanks. It lets us
draw our own conclusions and understand where the uncertainties are.
Nico Garcia
ra…@athena.mit.edu
In article <2JUL199419414…@kineret.huji.ac.il> masch…@kineret.huji.ac.il writes:
>My information is different. People from Yemen, who emigrated to Israel had
>very low incidences of diabetes. Coming to Israel and getting used to Western
>food, full of carbohydrates, increased the rate of incidence of diabetes
>to equal the same percentage as the normal population. Thus, whereas the
>newly arrivals did not show symptoms of diabetes, Yemenites who lived in Israel
>many years were as likely to develop diabetes as other Israelis.
But the case of the Pima Indians, who now have one of the highest incidences
of type II diabetes known, seems to indicate that it is not carbohydrates,
but getting too much food. Look at the Syndrome X theory, which is that
there is a gene which enables people to function better under starvation
type conditions, but leads to problems in times of plenty.
If anything, the "modern" food given to the Pimas had much more of the
calories in protein and fat.
—
Herman Rubin, Dept. of Statistics, Purdue Univ., West Lafayette IN47907-1399
Phone: (317)494-6054
hru…@stat.purdue.edu (Internet, bitnet)
{purdue,pur-ee}!snap.stat!hrubin(UUCP)
Hi Bill…
I wasn’t sure how I wanted to respond to your post about your theory of
teenagers and sugar, so I asked my mom to read your post and she and I
discussed my history.
I was diagnosed with diabetes when I was 12 after having gotten the flu or
something the winter before and constantly complaining about stomach pains
in my left lower quadrant. None of us paid much attention to the disease or
the complaints then because one of my neighbors had just gotten appendicitis
and was taken to the hospital under emergency conditions. I never could
remember which side of the stomach was supposed to hurt with appendicitis,
so my Mom and Dad just blew it off… I always was a hypochondriac.
It wasn’t until later that spring (April or May) that we began to notice
things. One by one they didn’t seem unusual. I went to the bathroom a lot,
but I never mentioned it to my parents so no one noticed. I needed glasses,
but both my parents had had glasses by the time they were 12, they didn’t
think anything was odd about that. I had a heat stroke (so it seemed) and
Mom took me to the doctor. When he weighed me and I saw my weight I
remembered that when I’d weighed myself a week before I was 4 pounds
heavier. He told me all girls my age were trying to lose weight (that
pissed both my mother and me off… I wasn’t like that) and he detected the
beginning of strep throat. It wasn’t until I came back from camp after 3.5
weeks that my parents noticed my weight loss and did a urine sugar before
taking me to the hospital the next day.
I’m telling you all of this because I want to show you that I was a normal
teenager going through the process of diabetes. My father was a doctor and
my mother managed his office. I did eat sugar, but I always got it in ice
cream or desserts when my parents and I went out to dinner… we didn’t have
lunches at school and my mom didn’t keep snacks and candy in the house. On
Halloween, I never got much candy because I live in a small neighborhood and
wasn’t allowed to walk on our connecting street (it was too busy) and I
never ate it all at one time. It usually took me 2 or 3 weeks to finish it
if I managed to finish the candy. It was usually old before I did.
Bill, there is no true cause for diabetes. We would like to have one reason
so that we can prevent our loved ones from getting it, but there is no real
reason. I have no history of diabetes in my family… no that’s not
correct… Mom’s grandfather had diabetes that he developed when he was in
his 60s…. that’s it though. I did not OD on sugar at any time in my life.
For that matter, I think when I’m low, I probably eat more sugar than I did
at anytime before I developed diabetes. I have always been a thin person
and always within my weight range for my height and I have always been
healthy. *laugh* for that matter, I’ve had more problems with my health
that were not diabetic related after I was diagnosed than before… such as
appendicitis, scalding my knee, strep throat, spraining my ankle and
throwing my shoulder out of joint… and I’m now 21. I have been a
diabetic for 9 years now… my diagnosis will have been 9 years ago exactly
in 2 weeks… and I have yet to find a true reason for that failure of my
pancreas… or rather a reason that I developed that flu. I think I must
have caught it from someone in school.
Oh yeah, I was the only diabetic in school too.
Meg
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
In article <2v4uh2$…@emoryu1.cc.emory.edu>, bioaw…@emoryu1.cc.emory.edu (Claire Maier) writes…
>masch…@kineret.huji.ac.il wrote:
>: My information is different. People from Yemen, who emigrated to Israel had
>: very low incidences of diabetes. Coming to Israel and getting used to Western
>: food, full of carbohydrates, increased the rate of incidence of diabetes
>: to equal the same percentage as the normal population. Thus, whereas the
>: newly arrivals did not show symptoms of diabetes, Yemenites who lived in Israel
>: many years were as likely to develop diabetes as other Israelis.
>: Rachel
>Contrary to popular opinion, Western diets probably have a lower
>percentage of carbohydrate than diets in other areas. Western diets are
>higher in fat, protein, and total calories.
><Sigh> It’s amazing how the misconceptions about those debbil carbos
>continue to haunt us.
New arrival Yemenites are certainly acustomed to less food, less carbohydrates,
les fats and Proteins and less Calories.
By the way, all digested food turns eventually into glucose, so has its effect
on BG level. (Of course, the speed of being converted also matters.
Rachel
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
In article <CsDoGq….@mozo.cc.purdue.edu>, hru…@b.stat.purdue.edu (Herman Rubin) writes…
>In article <2JUL199419414…@kineret.huji.ac.il> masch…@kineret.huji.ac.il writes:
>>My information is different. People from Yemen, who emigrated to Israel had
>>very low incidences of diabetes. Coming to Israel and getting used to Western
>>food, full of carbohydrates, increased the rate of incidence of diabetes
>>to equal the same percentage as the normal population. Thus, whereas the
>>newly arrivals did not show symptoms of diabetes, Yemenites who lived in Israel
>>many years were as likely to develop diabetes as other Israelis.
>But the case of the Pima Indians, who now have one of the highest incidences
>of type II diabetes known, seems to indicate that it is not carbohydrates,
>but getting too much food. Look at the Syndrome X theory, which is that
>there is a gene which enables people to function better under starvation
>type conditions, but leads to problems in times of plenty.
>If anything, the "modern" food given to the Pimas had much more of the
>calories in protein and fat.
>–
>Herman Rubin, Dept. of Statistics, Purdue Univ., West Lafayette IN47907-1399
>Phone: (317)494-6054
>hru…@stat.purdue.edu (Internet, bitnet)
>{purdue,pur-ee}!snap.stat!hrubin(UUCP)
Hi Herman,
Since almost all you eat turns into glucose, the amount of calories
counts too. I see no contradiction.
I am not familiar with the statistics of the Pima Indians. Does it correlate
them with non-Pima Indians. If so, it proves very little, because every
result can be explained by the special genetic factors the Pima Indians may
have.
If, on the other hand, as in the Yemenites case, it compares Pima Indians
having two different diets them the conclusions are more convincing.
Regards,
Rachel
masch…@kineret.huji.ac.il wrote:
: In article <CsDoGq….@mozo.cc.purdue.edu>, hru…@b.stat.purdue.edu (Herman Rubin) writes…
: >In article <2JUL199419414…@kineret.huji.ac.il> masch…@kineret.huji.ac.il writes:
: >>My information is different. People from Yemen, who emigrated to Israel had
: >>very low incidences of diabetes. Coming to Israel and getting used to Western
: >>food, full of carbohydrates, increased the rate of incidence of diabetes
: >>to equal the same percentage as the normal population. Thus, whereas the
: >>newly arrivals did not show symptoms of diabetes, Yemenites who lived in Israel
: >>many years were as likely to develop diabetes as other Israelis.
: >
: >But the case of the Pima Indians, who now have one of the highest incidences
: >of type II diabetes known, seems to indicate that it is not carbohydrates,
: >but getting too much food. Look at the Syndrome X theory, which is that
: >there is a gene which enables people to function better under starvation
: >type conditions, but leads to problems in times of plenty.
: >
: >If anything, the "modern" food given to the Pimas had much more of the
: >calories in protein and fat.
: >–
: >Herman Rubin, Dept. of Statistics, Purdue Univ., West Lafayette IN47907-1399
: >Phone: (317)494-6054
: >hru…@stat.purdue.edu (Internet, bitnet)
: >{purdue,pur-ee}!snap.stat!hrubin(UUCP)
: Hi Herman,
: Since almost all you eat turns into glucose, the amount of calories
: counts too. I see no contradiction.
: I am not familiar with the statistics of the Pima Indians. Does it correlate
: them with non-Pima Indians. If so, it proves very little, because every
: result can be explained by the special genetic factors the Pima Indians may
: have.
: If, on the other hand, as in the Yemenites case, it compares Pima Indians
: having two different diets them the conclusions are more convincing.
: Regards,
: Rachel
"After many years of living" anywhere, tpye II pops up in any population
over 40, so is this a sociological study or a medical study? All these
posts seem to prove is that there is still no conclusive evidence of
cause as well as a cure. Thanks for all the work.
Marcie
In article <2v94bd$…@condor.ic.net> m…@ic.net (Marcie Smith) writes:
>masch…@kineret.huji.ac.il wrote:
>: In article <CsDoGq….@mozo.cc.purdue.edu>, hru…@b.stat.purdue.edu (Herman Rubin) writes…
>: >In article <2JUL199419414…@kineret.huji.ac.il> masch…@kineret.huji.ac.il writes:
………………..
>: >But the case of the Pima Indians, who now have one of the highest incidences
>: >of type II diabetes known, seems to indicate that it is not carbohydrates,
>: >but getting too much food. Look at the Syndrome X theory, which is that
>: >there is a gene which enables people to function better under starvation
>: >type conditions, but leads to problems in times of plenty.
>: >
>: >If anything, the "modern" food given to the Pimas had much more of the
>: >calories in protein and fat.
………………
>: Since almost all you eat turns into glucose, the amount of calories
>: counts too. I see no contradiction.
>: I am not familiar with the statistics of the Pima Indians. Does it correlate
>: them with non-Pima Indians. If so, it proves very little, because every
>: result can be explained by the special genetic factors the Pima Indians may
>: have.
………………….
>"After many years of living" anywhere, tpye II pops up in any population
>over 40, so is this a sociological study or a medical study? All these
>posts seem to prove is that there is still no conclusive evidence of
>cause as well as a cure. Thanks for all the work.
This is a medical study. The incidence of type II among various populations
is quite variable. Pima Indians had a relatively low incidence until the
government took much of their land, and provided a "good American diet"
for them. Because of the high incidence, it may be easier to find the
genetic markers and other important differences; they are also a more
homogeneous group than most of that size.
—
Herman Rubin, Dept. of Statistics, Purdue Univ., West Lafayette IN47907-1399
Phone: (317)494-6054
hru…@stat.purdue.edu (Internet, bitnet)
{purdue,pur-ee}!snap.stat!hrubin(UUCP)
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
In article <2v94bd$…@condor.ic.net>, m…@ic.net (Marcie Smith) writes…
>masch…@kineret.huji.ac.il wrote:
>: Hi Herman,
>: Since almost all you eat turns into glucose, the amount of calories
>: counts too. I see no contradiction.
>: I am not familiar with the statistics of the Pima Indians. Does it correlate
>: them with non-Pima Indians. If so, it proves very little, because every
>: result can be explained by the special genetic factors the Pima Indians may
>: have.
>: If, on the other hand, as in the Yemenites case, it compares Pima Indians
>: having two different diets them the conclusions are more convincing.
>: Regards,
>: Rachel
>"After many years of living" anywhere, tpye II pops up in any population
>over 40, so is this a sociological study or a medical study? All these
>posts seem to prove is that there is still no conclusive evidence of
>cause as well as a cure. Thanks for all the work.
>Marcie
Marcie,
I beg to differ with you:
After living many years in Yemen (and just coming to Israel) Yemenites
show very little cases of type II diabetics. A similar group of people
(same age groups, same ethnic origin) who lived in Israel for many years
have an incidence of diabetes similar to the rest of the population. This
supports the conjecture that the reason is that the diet Yementites used to
live on in their own country prevents their diabetes from showing up.
Nobody claims that one can find cure from diabetes from these findings.
At most it may indicate that a proper diet may delay a "diabetically-inclined"
person from becomming diabetic. (Or one can claim that such a person was
diabetic all the time even if that did not show up in his BG level.)
Remember: Statistics does not prove anything. It may only support conjectures.
Rachel