Discussion of diabetes management in day to day life





home OGTT

Today, I performed my amateur version of an OGTT, by taking two regular
12-oz cokes alone at 5am, which should equate to 78g of high-fructose
corn syrup, and not much else significant but some caffeine.  I had only
mild activity during this period.

The readings were as follows:

HR      BG
-0.3 95
0.5 131
1.0 132
1.5 121
2.0 108
2.5 107
3.0 96
3.6 101
4.0 106
4.5 103
5.0 103

So, how to interpret this?  To what degree is this comparable to 75g of
anhydrous glucose, in both quality and quantity?  I didn’t hit the IGT
threshold of 120 at the two-hour point, but I certainly did thru 1.5
hrs.  About hour 3 I did drink another soda, but this one was a
aspertame flavored drink with tea in it, so it should not have
contributed any significant carbs, but may be a stimulant.

Some people indicate that anything above 100 is abnormal (although not
unusual), while other sources seem to indicate that high spikes are not
any concern if they are of less than 2 hrs duration.  Also, I have seen
much higher numbers, which took much longer to drop with other meals and
circumstances, but they were meals containing starches rather than much
sugar, and probably more calories.

posted by admin in Uncategorized and have Comments (20)






20 Responses to “home OGTT”

  1. admin says:

    "Ludwig" <lud…@dontemailme.com> wrote in message

    news:6ZLld.1005$Tu.83@fe39.usenetserver.com…

    - Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

    > Today, I performed my amateur version of an OGTT, by taking two regular
    > 12-oz cokes alone at 5am, which should equate to 78g of high-fructose
    > corn syrup, and not much else significant but some caffeine.  I had only
    > mild activity during this period.

    > The readings were as follows:

    > HR      BG
    > -0.3 95
    > 0.5 131
    > 1.0 132
    > 1.5 121
    > 2.0 108
    > 2.5 107
    > 3.0 96
    > 3.6 101
    > 4.0 106
    > 4.5 103
    > 5.0 103

    > So, how to interpret this?  To what degree is this comparable to 75g of
    > anhydrous glucose, in both quality and quantity?  I didn’t hit the IGT
    > threshold of 120 at the two-hour point, but I certainly did thru 1.5
    > hrs.  About hour 3 I did drink another soda, but this one was a
    > aspertame flavored drink with tea in it, so it should not have
    > contributed any significant carbs, but may be a stimulant.

    > Some people indicate that anything above 100 is abnormal (although not
    > unusual), while other sources seem to indicate that high spikes are not
    > any concern if they are of less than 2 hrs duration.  Also, I have seen
    > much higher numbers, which took much longer to drop with other meals and
    > circumstances, but they were meals containing starches rather than much
    > sugar, and probably more calories.

    Thats easy for you to say !!!

    ;-)  David

  2. admin says:

    Ludwig wrote in message <6ZLld.1005$Tu…@fe39.usenetserver.com>…
    >Today, I performed my amateur version of an OGTT, by taking two regular
    >12-oz cokes alone at 5am, which should equate to 78g of high-fructose
    >corn syrup, . . .(snip). . .
    >So, how to interpret this?  To what degree is this comparable to 75g of
    >anhydrous glucose, in both quality and quantity?  . . .(snip). . .

    Sorry,  not very comparable at all.    Fructose is the primary ingredient in
    High Fructose Corn Syrup.   Fructose doesn’t raise your blood sugar nearly
    as fast or as much as glucose.    IIRC,   it is digested in the intestines
    and becomes a nutrient through some complex scheme which doesn’t do much at
    all for blood sugar.

    http://www.gpnotebook.co.uk/cache/1785397306.htm

    High Fructose Corn Syrup used to come in two varieties,   55% Fructose and
    65% Fructose.   I don’t know which they use in your soda pop but in either
    case,  the glucose content of those Cokes were not the same as the glucose
    content of a OGTT.     Your 2 soda pops probably contained somewhere between
    27 and 35 gram of glucose,  i.e.  less than half of the standard OGTT dose.

    I have never seen a liquid,  glucose-only source.   I think they are
    available in Europe but here in the U.S.  the economics of High Fructose
    Corn Syrup have just about driven the glucose-only syrups off the market.

    If you really want to get into this,  you might be able to buy the 75-gram
    dose of glucose from Lab supply houses at outrageous prices.   Perhaps your
    local pharmacy can order a bottle for you.    Otherwise,  the U.S. candy
    known as "Smarties" is glucose-only sweetened.   You could try to dissolve
    enough rolls of Smarties in water to make up a 75-gram dose  (I’m guessing
    about 12 rolls)

    BTW:  fructose is not a reasonable sweetener for diabetics.   In excess,  it
    affects our triglycerides and high triglycerides levels are a general
    problem for Type 2 Diabetics,  e.g.

    http://www.mendosa.com/diabetes_update_28.htm

    ". . .The organization’s new statement, which is in the January 2002 issue
    of Diabetes Care and available on-line at no charge at
    http://care.diabetesjournals.org/cgi/content/full/25/1/202, for the first
    time, however, says that we should avoid fructose other than that which
    occurs naturally in fruit. . . . .".

    Regards
      Old Al

  3. admin says:

    On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 10:45:45 -0600, Ludwig wrote:
    > Today, I performed my amateur version of an OGTT, by taking two regular
    > 12-oz cokes alone at 5am, which should equate to 78g of high-fructose
    > corn syrup, and not much else significant but some caffeine.

    Doing a home OGTT was discussed a while back at alt.support.diabetes, you
    might search Google Groups. I think some people there discussed sources for
    measured glucose tablets and many details. Istr they’re available at
    pharmacies in the US, without prescription, for use in a hypoglycemic
    episode.

    Iirc the consensus was that you’d have to dissolve them and drink them, not
    swallow them as tabs, or the time to dissolve would throw off the timing of
    the test.

    Skinny

  4. admin says:

    On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 15:38:41 -0500, "oldal4865" <oldal4…@yahoo.com>
    wrote:

    >If you really want to get into this,  you might be able to buy the 75-gram
    >dose of glucose from Lab supply houses at outrageous prices.   Perhaps your
    >local pharmacy can order a bottle for you.    Otherwise,  the U.S. candy
    >known as "Smarties" is glucose-only sweetened.   You could try to dissolve
    >enough rolls of Smarties in water to make up a 75-gram dose  (I’m guessing
    >about 12 rolls)

    While glucose is not controlled, not something that requires a
    prescription, it seems they "discourage" the sale of the OGTT syrup to
    anyone but doctors.  I believe that they are worried about what might
    happen to a person with suspected diabetes who self-administers such a
    big dose of glucose without having medical support handy.  After an
    initial rise, if your blood sugar dropped too low (reactive
    hypoglycemia) you might pass out, possibly hurting yourself – that
    sort of thing.  

  5. admin says:

    coke isn’t really valid.. next time you get the desire
    for a home OGTT, try 75gm of pure sugar in just water
    its 4gm per teaspoon, do the math.

    then have NO activity at all. mild or otherwise unless its
    to go only to the bathroom.


    RK – t1
    *Disclaimer: i’m not a doctor. I only share personal
    experience of being a diabetic. I have no textbook
    learning, only life itself.
    ———————-
    In tribute to the United States of America and the State
    of Israel, two bastions of strength in a world filled with strife and
    terrorism.

    "Ludwig" <lud…@dontemailme.com> wrote in message

    news:6ZLld.1005$Tu.83@fe39.usenetserver.com…
    : Today, I performed my amateur version of an OGTT, by taking two regular
    : 12-oz cokes alone at 5am, which should equate to 78g of high-fructose
    : corn syrup, and not much else significant but some caffeine.  I had only
    : mild activity during this period.
    :
    : The readings were as follows:
    :
    : HR      BG
    : -0.3 95
    : 0.5 131
    : 1.0 132
    : 1.5 121
    : 2.0 108
    : 2.5 107
    : 3.0 96
    : 3.6 101
    : 4.0 106
    : 4.5 103
    : 5.0 103
    :
    : So, how to interpret this?  To what degree is this comparable to 75g of
    : anhydrous glucose, in both quality and quantity?  I didn’t hit the IGT
    : threshold of 120 at the two-hour point, but I certainly did thru 1.5
    : hrs.  About hour 3 I did drink another soda, but this one was a
    : aspertame flavored drink with tea in it, so it should not have
    : contributed any significant carbs, but may be a stimulant.
    :
    : Some people indicate that anything above 100 is abnormal (although not
    : unusual), while other sources seem to indicate that high spikes are not
    : any concern if they are of less than 2 hrs duration.  Also, I have seen
    : much higher numbers, which took much longer to drop with other meals and
    : circumstances, but they were meals containing starches rather than much
    : sugar, and probably more calories.
    :
    :
    :

  6. admin says:

    Ludwig,

    While I agree that what you did isn’t a pure GTT, it is very much what is
    called a Meal Tolerance Test and your results should give you a pretty good
    idea of what is happening when you eat a high carb meal.

    I’d say your results are quite good.  Even many normal people will spike
    very briefly if they get a large dollop of fast acting carb all at once.
    Your body not only cleared that spike very quickly, but more importantly,
    you did NOT drop low afterwards.

    People with insulin resistance often drop very low. My father-in-law for
    example, did not go over 140 at 2 hours, but he dropped to about 58 mg/dl at
    three hours and was told that was a sign of abnormal glucose metabolism.

    So if I were you, I’d relax, but I’d also avoid eating 30 or 40 grams of
    fast acting carb at any time since it’s much easier on your system if you
    avoid spiking (which, among other things, can make you hungry in a way that
    leads to weight gain.)

    – Jenny  - Low Carbing for 5 years. Below goal for weight. Type 2 diabetes,
    hba1c 5.7 .
    Cut the carbs to respond to my  email address!

    Jenny’s new site: What they Don’t Tell You About Diabetes
    http://www.geocities.com/lottadata4u/

    Jenny’s Low Carb Diet Facts & Figures
    http://www.geocities.com/jenny_the_bean/

    Looking for help controlling your blood sugar?
    Visit  http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org/Newly%20Diagnosed.htm

    "Ludwig" <lud…@dontemailme.com> wrote in message

    news:6ZLld.1005$Tu.83@fe39.usenetserver.com…

    - Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

    > Today, I performed my amateur version of an OGTT, by taking two regular
    > 12-oz cokes alone at 5am, which should equate to 78g of high-fructose
    > corn syrup, and not much else significant but some caffeine.  I had only
    > mild activity during this period.

    > The readings were as follows:

    > HR      BG
    > -0.3 95
    > 0.5 131
    > 1.0 132
    > 1.5 121
    > 2.0 108
    > 2.5 107
    > 3.0 96
    > 3.6 101
    > 4.0 106
    > 4.5 103
    > 5.0 103

    > So, how to interpret this?  To what degree is this comparable to 75g of
    > anhydrous glucose, in both quality and quantity?  I didn’t hit the IGT
    > threshold of 120 at the two-hour point, but I certainly did thru 1.5
    > hrs.  About hour 3 I did drink another soda, but this one was a
    > aspertame flavored drink with tea in it, so it should not have
    > contributed any significant carbs, but may be a stimulant.

    > Some people indicate that anything above 100 is abnormal (although not
    > unusual), while other sources seem to indicate that high spikes are not
    > any concern if they are of less than 2 hrs duration.  Also, I have seen
    > much higher numbers, which took much longer to drop with other meals and
    > circumstances, but they were meals containing starches rather than much
    > sugar, and probably more calories.

  7. admin says:

    "Skinny" <n…@no.com> wrote in message

    news:gyxeu4bqfm58$.71n56z7o6zgc$.dlg@40tude.net…

    > On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 10:45:45 -0600, Ludwig wrote:

    > I think some people there discussed sources for
    > measured glucose tablets and many details. Istr they’re available at
    > pharmacies in the US, without prescription, for use in a hypoglycemic
    > episode.

    > Iirc the consensus was that you’d have to dissolve them and drink them,
    > not swallow them as tabs, or the time to dissolve would throw off the
    > timing of the test.

    Yes, you can buy jars or tubes of glucose tablets (about 4g/tablet). I’m not
    sure how fast you can chew 20 or so pieces. Probably not as fast as I *know*
    I can down that many M&Ms! (which, of course, aren’t pure glucose.)
    bj

  8. admin says:

    >Yes, you can buy jars or tubes of glucose tablets (about 4g/tablet). I’m not
    >sure how fast you can chew 20 or so pieces. Probably not as fast as I *know*
    >I can down that many M&Ms! (which, of course, aren’t pure glucose.)
    >bj

    I just dug up the empty bottle which I had saved from my last "home
    OGTT".  It was made by Stephens Scientific and has a label "Glucose
    Tolerance Drink 100".  (Pregnant adults test with 100 g, non-pregnant
    adults use 75 g, children get tested per body weight).  It says on the
    label "For Professional Use Only" and lists possible side effects as
    nausea, vomitting, diarrhea or fainting.  It says that the GTD should
    only be taken under the direction of a physician.

    Now, I already knew from a doctor-supervised OGTT (previously
    administered) that I only had Impaired Glucose Tolerance, not
    Diabetes. I also knew that =I= didn’t have any of those side effects.
    I knew from the previous test that reactive hypoglycemia was not a
    problem =for me=.  I was also aware of the possible symptoms and what
    to do if they showed up.  So I felt confident that I knew enough to
    make a "medically informed decision" to do a home OGTT.  Many of the
    people who spend time in newsgroups like this are likewise well
    informed.  But the general populace is assumed to NOT be so well
    informed and so they don’t want to just hand over something they might
    react poorly to.

  9. admin says:

    After reading many suggestions, I did repeat the self-test, but this
    time with glucose, the type commonly sold in 4g oversized pills here in
    bottles, basically "smarties" without whatever they add to make smarties
    a bit tart.  I did however liquify the glucose by disolving it the night
    before in very hot water, and chilling the water before doing the test
    the next morning.  (My very first attempt at such a test several years
    ago, I tried chewing such tablets, but I found that I couldn’t possibly
    chew 75 g worth.  The first few were OK, but after a while I couldn’t
    force myself to finish that much.  In solution however, I could easily
    consume much more.)

    The results for glucose seemed significantly different from the corn
    syrup (Coke).  The peak was significantly higher, and while in the syrup
    case it seemed to flatten out just over 100 for 5+ hours, with glucose
    my BG dropped down to 89 in 3.7 hours.  That seems reasonable, since I
    basically substituted a very fast carb for a semi-fast carb, resulting
    in a higher max, and quicker clearing.

    Overall, the test seems to confirm what I already believed, that I am
    prediabetic, but not diabetic.  So with all of the good advice received
    and the lifestyle changes I am making, I believe that I can stay that
    way.  I’ll keep testing occasionally however.  Somehow seeing the
    numbers on the meter is very motivating.  I don’t intend to go on a low
    carb diet, although I understand that for many people here that is
    necessary.  At the moment, I believe that appropriate slower carbs will
    be sufficient, along with high fiber and moderate ammounts of fat to
    slow absorption further.

    "Jenny" <lottadataca…@hotmail.com> wrote in message

    news:FradnWjgnf-YIQXcRVn-iQ@rcn.net…

    - Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

    > Ludwig,

    > While I agree that what you did isn’t a pure GTT, it is very much what
    is
    > called a Meal Tolerance Test and your results should give you a pretty
    good
    > idea of what is happening when you eat a high carb meal.

    > I’d say your results are quite good.  Even many normal people will
    spike
    > very briefly if they get a large dollop of fast acting carb all at
    once.
    > Your body not only cleared that spike very quickly, but more
    importantly,
    > you did NOT drop low afterwards.

    > People with insulin resistance often drop very low. My father-in-law
    for
    > example, did not go over 140 at 2 hours, but he dropped to about 58
    mg/dl at
    > three hours and was told that was a sign of abnormal glucose
    metabolism.

    > So if I were you, I’d relax, but I’d also avoid eating 30 or 40 grams
    of
    > fast acting carb at any time since it’s much easier on your system if
    you
    > avoid spiking (which, among other things, can make you hungry in a way
    that
    > leads to weight gain.)

    > — Jenny  - Low Carbing for 5 years. Below goal for weight. Type 2
    diabetes,
    > hba1c 5.7 .

  10. admin says:

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    read more »

  11. admin says:

    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> UNODC REPORT <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

    The suspect Matt Parker from Cottage Grove OR USA
    owns the domains in the IP range 66.70.45.10 – 66.70.45.39
    Server type: Apache/1.3.27 (Unix) (Red-Hat/Linux) mod_ssl/2.8.12
    OpenSSL/0.9.6b DAV/1.0.3 PHP/4.3.1 mod_perl/1.26
    Ports: 21 22 25 53 80 110

    Webmasters and search engine administrators are adviced to block this
    IP
    range and to remove all links and listings of the sites in this IP
    range:

    http://www.trueloves.com > Credit Card Fraud/Sexual exploitation of minors
    http://www.skydesigns.com > Credit Card Fraud
    http://www.eurobrides.com > Credit Card Fraud/Sexual exploitation of minors
    http://www.romanceaffiliates.com > Credit Card Fraud/Sexual exploitation of
    minors
    http://www.rainypasslodge.com > Arms trafficking/Abuse of protected animals
    http://www.alaskablackbearhunt.com > Arms trafficking/Abuse of protected
    animals
    http://www.alaskabrownbearhunt.com > Arms trafficking/Abuse of protected
    animals
    http://www.alaskablacktaildeerhunt.com > Arms trafficking/Abuse of protected
    animals
    http://www.date2000.net > Hidden storage of illegal adult material
    http://www.antiscam.org > Defamatory statements and libel of uninvolved
    females
    http://www.europeanguide.net > Links site
    http://www.call-russia.com > Credit Card Fraud
    http://www.loves.ws > Links site
    http://www.vivalove.com > Affiliate site

    Addresses:
    Matt Parker 1505 Ash Ave Cottage Grove 97424 OR USA
    Matt Parker PO Box 1147 Cottage Grove 97424 OR USA
    Telephones:
    1 541-942-5087 <Disconnected>
    1 541-942-6145 <Disconnected>

    The aforementioned sites abuse credit card information and have
    software
    to track visitors. Most profiles of the personals were stolen from
    dating
    sites that provide the same copyrighted material for free.
    Registered members of these sites also have access to underage
    personals
    featuring adult material depicting minors in explicit sexual acts.

    The individual behind these sites trades underage girls from the
    Philippines
    and Russia that are being lured to the USA with false promises of
    work,
    marriage and the green card, and are eventually forced into
    prostitution.

    Information:
    http://tinyurl.com/5em8l
    http://web.archive.org/web/20020110131808/http://goasia.about.com/lib

    Sollicitation of minors:
    http://love.topograf.ru/index.php?pg=view&id=51985
    Translation: http://www.online-translator.com/default.asp?lang=en

    Material evidence:
    http://ukraine.fuckingteen.net/directory/ukrainian_girls-7.htm

    The individual that operates these sites manipulates facts using
    Email/IP spoofing
    and forged server logs to make others seem guilty and is part of an
    international
    criminal network supported by corrupt politicians.
    NEVER BELIEVE ANYTHING HE SAYS OR WRITES AND NEVER DISCLOSE ANY
    PERSONAL DATA.
    This suspect is an expert at manipulating people and the public
    opinion.

    Anybody who is concerned about the safety of minors can file
    complaints with:
    http://www.ftc.gov
    http://www.consumer.gov/idtheft
    https://www.econsumer.gov/imsn/wimsnery2$com.main?p_lang_seq=1
    http://www1.ifccfbi.gov/cf1.asp
    https://web.cybertip.org/cyberTipII.html
    http://www.haltabuse.org/help/question.shtml
    http://www.antichildporn.org/reportcp.htm
    http://www.bbb.org
    https://www.wiredsafety.org/forms/911.html
    http://www.fraud.org

    Any useful information or additional evidence leading to the arrest of
    this suspect or any endeavor to counter the criminal activities of
    these
    sites is much appreciated.

    Do not reply to this message.
    For more information please visit:
    http://www.unodc.org/unodc/en/trafficking_human_beings.html
    Support site:
    http://secretary.state.gov/www/picw/trafficking/home.htm

    Forwarding this report to your online acquaintances is a small effort
    that
    will definitely help to counter the criminal activities of these
    sites.

    - Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> UNODC REPORT <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
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    - Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

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    read more »

  12. admin says:

    texas,france.midi-pyrenees.montauban,alt.books.jack-chalker,misc.health.diabetes

    - Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

    > > matt parker alias von lunsen matt parker alias e_van_lun…@yahoo.com
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    - Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

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    - Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

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    read more »

  13. admin says:

    c…@posting.google.com>…
    > texas,france.midi-pyrenees.montauban,alt.books.jack-chalker,misc.health.diabetes
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  18. admin says:

    alt.warez.ibm-pc.apps,misc.health.diabetes,dk.marked.kommerciel,alt.recovery.addiction,rec.games.netrek

    - Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

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  19. admin says:

    On 21 Nov 2004 02:07:01 -0800, mattpar…@best.ge
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    Search results for: 68.82.94.85

    Comcast Cable Communications, Inc. JUMPSTART-2 (NET-68-80-0-0-1)
                                      68.80.0.0 – 68.87.255.255
    Comcast Cable Communications, Inc. PA-WEST-6 (NET-68-82-0-0-1)
                                      68.82.0.0 – 68.82.255.255

    Search results for: ! NET-68-80-0-0-1

    OrgName:    Comcast Cable Communications, Inc.
    OrgID:      CMCS
    Address:    1800 Bishops Gate Blvd
    City:       Mt Laurel
    StateProv:  NJ
    PostalCode: 08054
    Country:    US

    NetRange:   68.80.0.0 – 68.87.255.255
    CIDR:       68.80.0.0/13
    NetName:    JUMPSTART-2
    NetHandle:  NET-68-80-0-0-1
    Parent:     NET-68-0-0-0-0
    NetType:    Direct Allocation
    NameServer: DNS01.JDC01.PA.COMCAST.NET
    NameServer: DNS02.JDC01.PA.COMCAST.NET
    Comment:    ADDRESSES WITHIN THIS BLOCK ARE NON-PORTABLE
    RegDate:    2002-01-28
    Updated:    2003-11-05

    TechHandle: IC161-ARIN
    TechName:   Comcast Cable Communications Inc
    TechPhone:  +1-856-317-7200
    TechEmail:  CNIPEO-Ip-registrat…@cable.comcast.com

    OrgAbuseHandle: NAPO-ARIN
    OrgAbuseName:   Network Abuse and Policy Observance
    OrgAbusePhone:  +1-856-317-7272
    OrgAbuseEmail:  ab…@comcast.net

    OrgTechHandle: IC161-ARIN
    OrgTechName:   Comcast Cable Communications Inc
    OrgTechPhone:  +1-856-317-7200
    OrgTechEmail:  CNIPEO-Ip-registrat…@cable.comcast.com

    # ARIN WHOIS database, last updated 2004-11-22 19:10
    # Enter ? for additional hints on searching ARIN’s WHOIS database.

  20. admin says:

    Other yellow
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    - Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

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    - Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

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