- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

> In article <Pine.SCO.3.91.960117224058.22380D-100…@crash.cts.com>, Michel Martin Devine <m…@cts.com> writes:
> => =He says that an IDDM typically requires 1 unit of insulin per pound
> => =of body weight (read it for yourself above).  A 160 pounder like myself
> => =would therefore be considered average for taking 160 units of insulin per
> => =day!
> =>
> => Sorry, I meant 1/4 unit.  My apologies.
> =
> =That’s more like it.
> =
> =>
> => Now, Mickey, how about next time you post misinformation, you admit it instead
> => of trying to lie your way out of your error?
> =
> =Oh yes, I would have expected that from you.
> =
> =On a certain occasion or two, when I made a mistake, it DID NOT take the
> =constant nagging it took to get you to admit your mistake.  I have always
> =been forthright and prompt to straighten things out.

> Mickey, I corrected my mistake the minute it was pointed out.  Don’t blame me
> for the fact that you’re too damned ignorant to know that NNTP is not a full
> transaction-processing protocol, and therefore it may take several days for a
> message to propagate from one site to another.

Isn’t it neat that you have found something to hide behind?  I have seen
you make equally ridiculous statements in the past, but never took the
time to mention it.  And I have never seen YOU make a unilaterally
placed self-correction on ANYTHING.  So my reply to your NNTP stuff
is "sack it and sell it".

Mickey, I corrected my mistake the minute it was pointed out.  Don’t blame me
for the fact that you’re too damned ignorant to know that NNTP is not a full
transaction-processing protocol, and therefore it may take several days for a
message to propagate from one site to another.
—————————————————————————
I  try  very  hard  to say exactly what I mean.  I’d appreciate it if you’d
bear that in mind and not try to "interpret"  my  posts  to  fit  your  own
preconceived notions if I’m posting in a serious thread.  Remember:  If you
throw a strawman into a heated debate, flames are likely to be the result.

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

> In article <Pine.SCO.3.91.960113231225.7874A-100…@crash.cts.com>,
> Michel Martin Devine  <m…@cts.com> wrote:

> >At any rate, I am going to keep collecting boners like this that
> >he drops everywhere, and I am going to keep reposting them with
> >the same regularity as Steve Kirchoeffer’s AutoPosting Robot,
> >simply for the edification of newcomers.  These people have a
> >tendency to be taken in by this charlatan, and it is only fair
> >that they be clued in as to what we have here in our midst: a
> >real cookoo.

> The automatic weekly posting of the guidelines was the *group’s* idea, not
> my own.  I would never do something so annoying as setting up a robot
> without the explicit consent of the group.  I do it as a directly-requested
> favor to the readership.  This does not justify the kind of abuse that
> Mickey threatens.  

Please note, ladies and gentlemen, that Lydik can go around here at m.h.d.
and do anything he wants, even write the nastiest E-mail to women to see
if he can make them cry just for posting a question that is in his opinion
"dumb".  He flames anyone he pleases using the most vile language.  He
deliberately twists and distorts everything they say for the purpose of
confusing bystanders into thinking that he, Lydik, is smart.  There are
even a few other sadists like Lydik (the S-M man) here who cheer him on.

But have you ever heard a single word of disapproval addressed publicly
to Lydik from this Steve Kirchoefer, one of the stalwarts who founded
misc.health.diabetes?  He would never even think of doing so.

Yet I am sure that if *I* were to carry on completely like Lydik I would
never hear the end of it from Kirchoefer.  What I perceive is a form of
"double standard" around here.  If you are Lydik, it matters not what you
do.  Lydik must truly be the "Messiah".

Therefore, my reply to all of Lydik’s supporters (who, by the way, could
all meet in a phone booth):  You’re nothing but HYPOCRITES.  If you really
believe what you say to me, you should have been telling it to *Lydik*
in the first place.  Maybe then he wouldn’t have become the monster
he is, had he received counselling from his own people.  And nothing like
what is happening now would ever have started.  But wars are like that.  
Once they start, there is always plenty of 20-20 hindsight.

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

> On 17 Jan 1996, Steve Kirchoefer wrote:

>> In article <Pine.SCO.3.91.960113231225.7874A-100…@crash.cts.com>,
>> Michel Martin Devine  <m…@cts.com> wrote:

> Please note, ladies and gentlemen, that Lydik can go around here at m.h.d.
> and do anything he wants, even write the nastiest E-mail to women to see
> if he can make them cry just for posting a question that is in his opinion
> "dumb".  He flames anyone he pleases using the most vile language.  He
> deliberately twists and distorts everything they say for the purpose of
> confusing bystanders into thinking that he, Lydik, is smart.  There are
> even a few other sadists like Lydik (the S-M man) here who cheer him on.

> But have you ever heard a single word of disapproval addressed publicly
> to Lydik from this Steve Kirchoefer, one of the stalwarts who founded
> misc.health.diabetes?  He would never even think of doing so.

Yes, I remember long discussions about what to do with "our problem poster."
At that time it was Carl.  However, given the frequency of your posts and
the relative noise to signal ratio Carl hardly appears to be the primary
problem.  Constructive criticism is useful, even when abusive.  Destructive
criticism is never useful.

> Yet I am sure that if *I* were to carry on completely like Lydik I would
> never hear the end of it from Kirchoefer.  What I perceive is a form of
> "double standard" around here.  If you are Lydik, it matters not what you
> do.  Lydik must truly be the "Messiah".

Given the current state of affairs, if all you did was carry on like Carl, we would feel
blessed.
> Therefore, my reply to all of Lydik’s supporters (who, by the way, could
> all meet in a phone booth):  You’re nothing but HYPOCRITES.  If you really
> believe what you say to me, you should have been telling it to *Lydik*
> in the first place.  Maybe then he wouldn’t have become the monster
> he is, had he received counselling from his own people.  And nothing like
> what is happening now would ever have started.  But wars are like that.  
> Once they start, there is always plenty of 20-20 hindsight.

You obviously haven’t been reading all of m.h.d. or, for that matter, reading for
very long.  If you have, your memory is "selective."

Orville R. Butler

Actually, the folks in the group also tend to post news about possible "cures"
(e.g., islet cell transplants, experimental programs aimed at preventing the
onset in the first place, etc.).  The reason she won’t find a cure here is that
no cure exists.  Period.
—————————————————————————
I  try  very  hard  to say exactly what I mean.  I’d appreciate it if you’d
bear that in mind and not try to "interpret"  my  posts  to  fit  your  own
preconceived notions if I’m posting in a serious thread.  Remember:  If you
throw a strawman into a heated debate, flames are likely to be the result.

Discussion of insulin requirements deleted..

Again, purely anecdotal.  I would be interested in specific citations.

According to Kahn and Weir, most patients with no endogenous insulin
require doses in the range 0.5-1.0 U/kg per day.

–
Charles Coughran
ccough…@ucsd.edu

>At any rate, I am going to keep collecting boners like this that
>he drops everywhere, and I am going to keep reposting them with
>the same regularity as Steve Kirchoeffer’s AutoPosting Robot,
>simply for the edification of newcomers.  These people have a
>tendency to be taken in by this charlatan, and it is only fair
>that they be clued in as to what we have here in our midst: a
>real cookoo.

The automatic weekly posting of the guidelines was the *group’s* idea, not
my own.  I would never do something so annoying as setting up a robot
without the explicit consent of the group.  I do it as a directly-requested
favor to the readership.  This does not justify the kind of abuse that
Mickey threatens.  

–
Steve Kirchoefer
Naval Research Laboratory
Washington, DC  20375-5347

Then followed it up with:

>Sorry, I meant 1/4 unit.  My apologies.

Can you cite your sources?  This new number still seems incorrect, at least
in children.  The guidelines given by our pedi-endocrinologist is a maximum
of 1 unit of insulin per kilo of body weight. This amount is adjusted downwards
for the level of control advisable for the age of the child, because, as you
have previously posted, tight control is not recommended in young children.
In our case, we have held pretty steady at about .75 unit/kilo for the past
4 years, with a target range of 125-225 BG’s, for a child from the age of 1 year
to 5 years.

Additionaly, based on a lot of anecdotal information, it is more usual than not
for children to fall into the category of still producing some insulin on their
own after the initial diagnosis and treatment.  The honeymoon period may swing
as far as not requiring any insulin at all for a period of time,
but it is common to see initial dosages in newly
diagnosed children to be in line with the 8 units/day stated in the original
posts.
Again, purely anecdotal.  I would be interested in specific citations.

Cathy

********************************************************************
* Catherine Finerty Coe                 Email    :c…@esd.nsc.com *
*  Most certainly my own opinions                                  *
********************************************************************

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

> In article <Pine.SCO.3.91.960113185003.10296B-100…@crash.cts.com>, Michel Martin Devine <m…@cts.com> writes:
> =On 13 Jan 1996, Speaker-to-Minerals wrote:
> =
> => In article <binga-1201960043480…@128.125.224.6>, binga writes:
> => =       Our daughter , less than eight year’s old,  had abdominal pain often
> => =with poor appetize and had become thin accordingly since august, 1995.  In
> => =november 17, 1995, she got keton ++++ caused by flu. From november 17 to
> => =december 14, she had been in local hospital and Beijing Children Hospital
> => =early and late for curing ill and was diagnosed as Insulin – Dependent
> => =Diabetes Mellitus ( IDDM ). She is out of hospital now because the illness is
> => =managed in stable temporarily. In home, she is injected of insulin with 8 unit
> => =per day and limited of  food with forbidden of snacks and sweet food. Now she
> => =still feel abdominal pain often, especially when hungry, and her eyes appear
> => =micro red blood  line even under good and enough sleep condition. She had ever
> => =got lymphnoditis  in May, 1993 , which was doubted to be inffected by
> => =streptococcus . After recovered, she feel pain around the knee sometimes.
> =>
> => 8 units of insulin per day is well below the expected requirements of someone
> => with fully-developed IDDM.  The normal requirement is approximately 1 unit of
> => insulin per pound of body weight (2.2 units/kilogram of body mass).  Of course,
> => someone in whom the IDDM isn’t fully-developed may still be producing some
> => endogenous insulin, so the injections need only cover the difference between
> => the body’s demands and endogenous insulin production.
> =
> =
> =OK, everyone.  This is what I am always refering to as Lydik and his
> =misinformation, as well as his stupitdity and asininity.

> =He says that an IDDM typically requires 1 unit of insulin per pound
> =of body weight (read it for yourself above).  A 160 pounder like myself
> =would therefore be considered average for taking 160 units of insulin per
> =day!

> Sorry, I meant 1/4 unit.  My apologies.

That’s more like it.

> Now, Mickey, how about next time you post misinformation, you admit it instead
> of trying to lie your way out of your error?

Oh yes, I would have expected that from you.

On a certain occasion or two, when I made a mistake, it DID NOT take the
constant nagging it took to get you to admit your mistake.  I have always
been forthright and prompt to straighten things out.

As for me trying to "lie my way out of my error", that is only apparent
to YOU because I was defending my position which I believed to be true
and for which I could provide evidence and logic to be true.

One thing you have got to get through your thick politically correct
skull, Lydik, is that just because someone has a different idea than
yours, THEY ARE NOT LYING.

Hence forth and forever, everytime you come forward to give someone the
works in your habitually vile manner, and in so doing proclaiming yourself
to be the resident guru, the resident censor at m.h.d., I am going to
repost your own words about the 1 unit of insulin per pound of body
weight just to show how UNRELIABLE you are.  

Are you really a diabetic, Lydik, or just an avid follower of the subject?
I ask you this mainly because no diabetic who owns a vial of insulin could
fail to see the absurdity in your dictum.  You even said it TWICE, once in
avoirdupois and then in metric (2.2 units per kilo of body mass).  Truly,
you don’t know your ear from a hole in the wall (to use polite language
for mixed company).

> —————————————————————————
> I  try  very  hard  to say exactly what I mean.

I question that.  I don’t think that what you appear to mean should be
taken in any seriousness at all.  Mainly because it took you over THREE days
to respond to this asinine error of fact, and only at my constant prodding.

Lydik, you’re through.  You might just as well as admit it.  You
set yourself up for your own fall.  Compare yourself with me.
I have never even remotely implied that *I* was infallible.  The
information I have posted was placed in the spirit of inviting open
and fair discussion.  If I were wrong, all I asked was someone who
could explain rationally the error in my thinking.  But in contrast,
all you have ever been able to do to refute mine or anyone else’s position
is to call them "moron" when you are feeling good, or "shit for brains"
when you are not.  How does that logically support your position?
It doesn’t, and never will.

=He says that an IDDM typically requires 1 unit of insulin per pound
=of body weight (read it for yourself above).  A 160 pounder like myself
=would therefore be considered average for taking 160 units of insulin per
=day!

Sorry, I meant 1/4 unit.  My apologies.

Now, Mickey, how about next time you post misinformation, you admit it instead
of trying to lie your way out of your error?
—————————————————————————
I  try  very  hard  to say exactly what I mean.  I’d appreciate it if you’d
bear that in mind and not try to "interpret"  my  posts  to  fit  your  own
preconceived notions if I’m posting in a serious thread.  Remember:  If you
throw a strawman into a heated debate, flames are likely to be the result.