19 Responses to “Help to Save A Girl's Life!!!”

1. admin says:

   March 30 at 12:29 pm

   In article <binga-1201960043480…@128.125.224.6>, binga writes:

   =       Our daughter , less than eight year’s old,  had abdominal pain often
   =with poor appetize and had become thin accordingly since august, 1995.  In
   =november 17, 1995, she got keton ++++ caused by flu. From november 17 to
   =december 14, she had been in local hospital and Beijing Children Hospital
   =early and late for curing ill and was diagnosed as Insulin – Dependent
   =Diabetes Mellitus ( IDDM ). She is out of hospital now because the illness is
   =managed in stable temporarily. In home, she is injected of insulin with 8 unit
   =per day and limited of  food with forbidden of snacks and sweet food. Now she
   =still feel abdominal pain often, especially when hungry, and her eyes appear
   =micro red blood  line even under good and enough sleep condition. She had ever
   =got lymphnoditis  in May, 1993 , which was doubted to be inffected by
   =streptococcus . After recovered, she feel pain around the knee sometimes.
   

   8 units of insulin per day is well below the expected requirements of someone
   with fully-developed IDDM.  The normal requirement is approximately 1 unit of
   insulin per pound of body weight (2.2 units/kilogram of body mass).  Of course,
   someone in whom the IDDM isn’t fully-developed may still be producing some
   endogenous insulin, so the injections need only cover the difference between
   the body’s demands and endogenous insulin production.

   =      Our daughter is still in her childhood, and is lovely and vivid. Were
   =such a future cruel life for her to face, what it would be tragic to her! We,
   =as child’s parents, feel very worried because we can not replace the child to
   =suffer the illness and to remove the illness from the child. We have enquired
   =the experts of internal secretion

   I assume that the above means "endocrinologists."

   =from all big hospital in Beijing, Guangzhou
   =and Shanghai in China. The answers are that there are no ways to cure the IDDM

   That’s true.

   =or control the continual worsen of  the ill.

   That’s not generally true.

   =The child could only live on the
   =injection of insulin and limitation of regulated food for her life.

   Sounds like the doctors in China are about 80 years behind the times.

   =      We here have to ask eagerly for help, assistant and curing ways from
   =Experts of IDDM from all over the World. Please help us to cure the illness of
   =our child!!! Now our child is still in Honey Moon State of Insulin Dependent
   =Diabetes Mellitus and her Insulin Islet still has certain function but is
   =being destroyed gradully.

   Actually, from what you’ve told us, it sounds as if your child is no longer in
   the honeymoon stage, but the doctors haven’t caught on to that fact.
   Unfortunately, you’ve given us no information about your daughter’s blood sugar
   levels, so it’s impossible to say, definitively, whether or not the amount of
   insulin she’s injecting is appropriate.

   =      We call for help to you the experts who have ways to cure Children’s
   =IDDM when in acute or honey moon states. Please help our daughter, she is
   =still in her childhood and still has long ways to go. We with our child will
   =be deep appreciated to you for your  help !

   Sorry, even in the western world, there’s no cure for IDDM.

   =In november 17, her ill became serious and had to stay in the hospital. After
   =stayed in  the hospital, the child had a intravenous drip of pure salt water
   =with insulin through vein and injection of insulin everyday before meal. One
   =day after intravenous drip, the keton  of the child had dropped with blood
   =sugar of 8.6 mmol/L, carbon dioxide binding force 20.2. After that,  the
   =quantity of injection of insulin was determined by the test result of urine
   =sugar and keton body  of  section urine ( the total urine between two meals )
   =made in 30 minutes before meal. Up to present, the doctor’s curing ways was to
   =increase or reduce the injection quantity of insulin according to the test
   =result of urine sugar

   There’s a bit of a problem with that:  The sugar content of the urine gives you
   something of an average level for the time since the bladder was last emptied,
   and depends, as well, on the renal threshold of the patient.  In short, a
   program based on the sugar content of the urine is likely to result in
   chronically elevated blood-sugar levels.

   =and keton to manage the state of illness and tried to

   And checking for urine ketones has a similar problem.  It’s quite possible for
   someone to have quite elevated blood sugar levels long before ketones appear in
   significant quantities in the urine.

   =      Our child had ever stayed in local hospital and Beijing Children’s
   =Hospital for curing the illness from November 17 to December 14.

   Again, IDDM can’t be cured (unless you consider a pancreas transplant and the
   accompanying immunosuppresant therapy to be a cure; there’s research into
   treatment using encapsulated islet cells which is intended to remove the need
   for the immunosuppressants, but it’s still an experimental therapy), but can
   only be controlled.

   =Blood test of November 30 ( two hours after meal ) :
   =
   =                            Blood sugar : 184mg% ,                  CO2

   That’s high, but not outrageously so.

   =Dec.1, 1995             sample : Blood
   =
   =GLUCOSE : 131mg %                    WHITE PROTEIN : 4.4g %        BALL

   That’s considerably better.

   =Nov. 28 , 1995        sample : Urine         Purpose : 24 Hours Protein

   =GLUCOSE : 131mg %      -equivalent          POTASSIUM : 4.6 milli-equiva

   Likewise.  However, all these numbers you’ve provided are well over a month out
   of date.  One’s insulin requirements can change significantly in a much shorter
   time than that.
   —————————————————————————
   I  try  very  hard  to say exactly what I mean.  I’d appreciate it if you’d
   bear that in mind and not try to "interpret"  my  posts  to  fit  your  own
   preconceived notions if I’m posting in a serious thread.  Remember:  If you
   throw a strawman into a heated debate, flames are likely to be the result.
2. admin says:

   March 30 at 12:29 pm

   Unfortunately, I don’t believe you are going to find a cure in this
   newsgroup.  It seems to focus more on managing the disease day to day.
   

   The one suggestion I would like to make–I’ve been on insulin for about
   13 years now and the doctors have noted no side effects–is that you
   help your daughter avoid being psychologically destroyed by this
   disease.  It’s very easy to become very negative when faced with this
   disease, especially when people start talking about all the terrible
   things that MAY happen to you.  

   I feel better and my control is much better when I don’t spend my day
   dwelling on this disease.  I’m not suggesting that you ignore its
   severity, just that you don’t contribute to its deleterious effects by
   dwelling on it all day–having your brain tell your body what serious
   condition it is in every waking moment.  

   Monitor your daughter’s blood glucose, help her with her medication,
   help her eat healthily, make sure she’s physically active, make sure you
   listen to good medical advice, and let her get on with life.
3. admin says:

   March 30 at 12:29 pm

   Dear Mr Pang,
   

   I am sorry to hear that your daughter has insulin-dependent diabetes.

   Your daughter does not seem to be ‘balanced’ yet.  A balanced
   insulin-dependent diabetic will seem, to the outsider to
   be living a normal life: i.e. she will be eating, exercising,
   and living just like her peers.  Only the diabetic and the
   family will know the careful balancing of insulin, exercise
   and food that makes that normal life possible.

   Once balanced, your daughter will be back to her old self.
   Do not rule out her swimming career – there are professional
   and ameteur sportsment and women who are insulin dependent!

   From your letter, I believe that your daughter will find life easier
   if you are able to test her blood glucose at home.  I was diagnosed
   when I was a little younger than your daughter, and at that time in
   the United Kingdom, there was no home blood-testing.  Now, nearly 26
   years after diagnosis, my life is much easier for two reasons:
   firstly, measuring my blood glucose, and secondly moving to an
   insulin injection schedule which means that I can change how
   much I inject to anticipate what I want to eat, or to react to
   what has happened since I last injected (e.g. an infection,
   unexpected exercise).  This means injections at least three times
   a day, but I don’t mind, as it means I can eat what I want,
   when I want.

   I went to a normal school, did not too badly in my exams, went to
   university, have worked since leaving university, and have been
   married for ten years now.

   In fact, the thing I long for, is not a cure, but simply a way of
   measuring blood glucose which doesn’t involve pricking my fingers!
   There is a machine which does this, but it costs too much at
   the moment.

   –
   Patricia Reynolds
   p…@caerlas.demon.co.uk
4. admin says:

   March 30 at 12:29 pm

   On 13 Jan 1996, Speaker-to-Minerals wrote:
   

   - Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

   > In article <binga-1201960043480…@128.125.224.6>, binga writes:
   > =       Our daughter , less than eight year’s old,  had abdominal pain often
   > =with poor appetize and had become thin accordingly since august, 1995.  In
   > =november 17, 1995, she got keton ++++ caused by flu. From november 17 to
   > =december 14, she had been in local hospital and Beijing Children Hospital
   > =early and late for curing ill and was diagnosed as Insulin – Dependent
   > =Diabetes Mellitus ( IDDM ). She is out of hospital now because the illness is
   > =managed in stable temporarily. In home, she is injected of insulin with 8 unit
   > =per day and limited of  food with forbidden of snacks and sweet food. Now she
   > =still feel abdominal pain often, especially when hungry, and her eyes appear
   > =micro red blood  line even under good and enough sleep condition. She had ever
   > =got lymphnoditis  in May, 1993 , which was doubted to be inffected by
   > =streptococcus . After recovered, she feel pain around the knee sometimes.
   

   > 8 units of insulin per day is well below the expected requirements of someone
   > with fully-developed IDDM.  The normal requirement is approximately 1 unit of
   > insulin per pound of body weight (2.2 units/kilogram of body mass).  Of course,
   > someone in whom the IDDM isn’t fully-developed may still be producing some
   > endogenous insulin, so the injections need only cover the difference between
   > the body’s demands and endogenous insulin production.

   OK, everyone.  This is what I am always refering to as Lydik and his
   misinformation, as well as his stupitdity and asininity.

   He says that an IDDM typically requires 1 unit of insulin per pound
   of body weight (read it for yourself above).  A 160 pounder like myself
   would therefore be considered average for taking 160 units of insulin per
   day!

   The average Type I, insulin dependent diabetic in Germany takes only *40*
   units per day.  And the average German weighs far more than 120 pounds.
   So you’re off by at least a factor of 3 to 1.

   Therefore, Lydik has passed out erroneous and misleading information
   to these people in Beijing.  As far as the 8 units per day goes, I would
   like to point out that the little girl is probably not as yet completely
   stabilized on a final level of insulin, and may end up requiring more
   than that still.  After all, she is only in the preliminary phases of
   treatment.

   To all you sycophants of Karl Lydik, you are a bunch of A.H.s.
   And really, people like Lydik should be curbed from practicing
   medicine on the Internet, not so much for lack of a license, but
   from a blatant lack of knowledge and judgment.

   Heil Lydik, king of the A.H.s!

   To all the rest here on m.h.d., don’t let yourself be taken in by
   this charlatan.

   Et Lydik, comme tu es bete!  Va t’en!

   Michel Martin Devine
5. admin says:

   March 30 at 12:29 pm

   On 13 Jan 1996, Speaker-to-Minerals wrote:

    > In article <binga-1201960043480…@128.125.224.6>, binga writes:

   > =       Our daughter , less than eight year’s old,  had abdominal pain often
   > =with poor appetize and had become thin accordingly since august, 1995.  In
   > =november 17, 1995, she got keton ++++ caused by flu. From november 17 to
   > =december 14, she had been in local hospital and Beijing Children Hospital
   > =early and late for curing ill and was diagnosed as Insulin – Dependent
   > =Diabetes Mellitus ( IDDM ). She is out of hospital now because the illness is
   > =managed in stable temporarily. In home, she is injected of insulin with 8 unit
   > =per day and limited of  food with forbidden of snacks and sweet food. Now she
   > =still feel abdominal pain often, especially when hungry, and her eyes appear
   > =micro red blood  line even under good and enough sleep condition. She had ever
   > =got lymphnoditis  in May, 1993 , which was doubted to be inffected by
   > =streptococcus . After recovered, she feel pain around the knee sometimes.

   Lydik’s masterful assessment of the situation:

   > 8 units of insulin per day is well below the expected requirements of someone
   > with fully-developed IDDM.  The normal requirement is approximately 1 unit of
   > insulin per pound of body weight (2.2 units/kilogram of body mass).

   OK, everyone.  This is what I am always refering to as Lydik and his
   misinformation, as well as his stupitdity and asininity, not to mention
   arrogance.

   He says that an IDDM typically requires 1 unit of insulin per pound
   of body weight (read it for yourself above).  A 160 pounder like myself
   would therefore be considered average for taking 160 units of insulin per
   day!

   The average *adult* Type I, insulin dependent diabetic in Germany takes only
   *40* units per day.  And the average adult German weighs much more than 120
   pounds. So you’re off by at least a factor of 3 to 1.

   Therefore, Lydik by running off at the mouth as he constantly does, has
   passed out erroneous and seriously misleading information to these people
   in Beijing.  As far as the 8 units per day goes, I would like to point
   out that the little girl is probably not as yet completely stabilized on
   a final level of insulin, and may end up requiring more than that still.  
   After all, she is only in the preliminary phases of treatment.

   Furthermore, Lydik’s misinformation, if read by someone like an
   inexperienced intern in a hospital, could end up in a newly diagnosed
   diabetic being overdosed with insulin.  Can you imagine an insulin-
   sensitive Type I diabetic (not insulin-resistant) being given an injection
   of such a size?  Like at the rate of 160 units per day for a 160
   pound person?  That could very easily be lethal.

   Lydik’s self-proclaimed role around here at m.h.d. as some sort
   of guardian to protect people from misinformation is absolutely
   ludicrous, blasting everyone he disagrees with using the worst
   form of language he can muster.  If he were sincere, he would have to
   blast himself, but don’t hold your breath until he does so.

   At any rate, I am going to keep collecting boners like this that
   he drops everywhere, and I am going to keep reposting them with
   the same regularity as Steve Kirchoeffer’s AutoPosting Robot,
   simply for the edification of newcomers.  These people have a
   tendency to be taken in by this charlatan, and it is only fair
   that they be clued in as to what we have here in our midst: a
   real cookoo.

   Lydik, you’re through.  Nobody is going to take you seriously
   from now on, and you can count on that.

   Michel Martin Devine
6. admin says:

   March 30 at 12:29 pm

   In article <4d81qc$…@gap.cco.caltech.edu>, lyd…@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU wrote:
   > In article <binga-1201960043480…@128.125.224.6>, binga writes:
   > =       Our daughter , less than eight year’s old,  had abdominal pain often
   > —————————————————————————
   > I  try  very  hard  to say exactly what I mean.  I’d appreciate it if you’d
   > bear that in mind and not try to "interpret"  my  posts  
   > ——-
   > 8 units of insulin per day is well below the expected requirements of someone
   > with fully-developed IDDM.  The normal requirement is approximately 1 unit of
   > insulin per pound of body weight (2.2 units/kilogram of body mass).

   Maybe you need to try a little harder.  I doubt even you would survive at 1 U
   of U-100 per pound of your body weight per day.  It would be more correct
   to say that a good starting point for IDDM treatment would begin at 0.1
   Unit per pound of body weight per day (or 0.22 Unit per kilogram per day).

   This person doesn’t need numbers as much as a pointer to well written and
   accurate information on Western knowledge of IDDM.  If you post numbers to
   the newsgroup, GET THEM RIGHT.

   > Sounds like the doctors in China are about 80 years behind the times.

   80 years … somewhat exagerated, I’d say…but that’s my own
   "…preconceived notion…" and probably has some support.  Chinese
   medicine may not measure up to US medicine in this case or, more
   particularly, in the case of this patient’s care; but, I’d take you to
   task for posting such a general statement to a conerned Chinese parent.

   From reading the rest of binga’s post, I’d conclude that emotional support
   is being asked for as well technical information.  Try to give them both,
   with love, if you must post.

     =====

   Binga —-

     I understand that you are very worried about the health care being given
   to your daughter after being diagnosed with diabetes.  You might look in a
   university library in Beijing for current Western treatment of diabetes
   with insulin and diet therapies.  Much has been written and there are many
   opinions about the best treatment.  But today treatment of IDDM usually
   begins with insulin injections, home blood glucose tests daily and some
   changes in diet.
     I hope you and your doctor can find the information and resources
   (insulin and portable blood glucose monitors) in China.  Trust your
   doctors.  Prepare for a never changing program for you and your daughter
   and your family as you find what is just right to treat her diabetes.  If
   possible, you and your doctor may want to contact the American Diabetes
   Association for a list of good publications … some may be available to
   you or your doctors in Beijing.
     My best as you.  

   Henry / Type I / MI / Dx 1991 / 47 yo /

   –
   Henry Middlebrook             InterNET:  hen…@bga.com
     Austin,  TX                  AMPRNet:  n5…@n5shl.ampr.org
7. admin says:

   March 30 at 12:29 pm

   In article <Pine.SCO.3.91.960113185003.10296B-100…@crash.cts.com>,
   Michel Martin Devine  <m…@cts.com> wrote:
   

   - Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

   >On 13 Jan 1996, Speaker-to-Minerals wrote:
   

   >> In article <binga-1201960043480…@128.125.224.6>, binga writes:
   >> =       Our daughter , less than eight year’s old,  had abdominal pain often
   >> =with poor appetize and had become thin accordingly since august, 1995.  In
   >> =november 17, 1995, she got keton ++++ caused by flu. From november 17 to
   >> =december 14, she had been in local hospital and Beijing Children Hospital
   >> =early and late for curing ill and was diagnosed as Insulin – Dependent
   >> =Diabetes Mellitus ( IDDM ). She is out of hospital now because the illness
   >> =is managed in stable temporarily. In home, she is injected of insulin
   >> =with 8 unit per day and limited of  food with forbidden of snacks and
   >> =sweet food. Now she still feel abdominal pain often, especially when
   >> =hungry, and her eyes appear micro red blood  line even under good and
   >> =enough sleep condition. She had ever got lymphnoditis  in May, 1993 ,
   >> =which was doubted to be inffected by streptococcus . After
   >> =recovered, she feel pain around the knee sometimes.

   >> 8 units of insulin per day is well below the expected requirements of someone
   >> with fully-developed IDDM.  The normal requirement is approximately 1 unit of
   >> insulin per pound of body weight (2.2 units/kilogram of body mass).  Of course,
   >> someone in whom the IDDM isn’t fully-developed may still be producing some
   >> endogenous insulin, so the injections need only cover the difference between
   >> the body’s demands and endogenous insulin production.

   >OK, everyone.  This is what I am always refering to as Lydik and his
   >misinformation, as well as his stupitdity and asininity.

   >He says that an IDDM typically requires 1 unit of insulin per pound
   >of body weight (read it for yourself above).  A 160 pounder like myself
   >would therefore be considered average for taking 160 units of insulin per
   >day!

   Yes, that’s a high estimate.  *But* Carl (whose name you persist in
   misspelling) was right in suggesting that her insulin requirement has almost
   certainly not stabilized at 8 units, and that they therefore need to
   monitor her closely to make sure her dosage continues to be sufficient to
   her need.

   >Therefore, Lydik has passed out erroneous and misleading information
   >to these people in Beijing.  As far as the 8 units per day goes, I would
   >like to point out that the little girl is probably not as yet completely
   >stabilized on a final level of insulin, and may end up requiring more
   >than that still.  After all, she is only in the preliminary phases of
   >treatment.

   Yes, and Carl contradicted that how?  

   >To all you sycophants of Karl Lydik, you are a bunch of A.H.s.

   Hi there!  If you’re going to crudely insult people, at least have the
   balls to write the words out, jackass.

   >And really, people like Lydik should be curbed from practicing
   >medicine on the Internet, not so much for lack of a license, but
   >from a blatant lack of knowledge and judgment.

   Look, he made a numerical error.  He *also* told this woman the
   *essential* information that *she needs to be testing her daughter’s b.g.
   at home*  (something she has not been doing — she’s been using urine
   tests).  He did not say to change her insulin dosage without watching
   the effect.  His statements should not lead to any dangerous effects.

   >Heil Lydik, king of the A.H.s!

   Quit with the ad hominem.

   >To all the rest here on m.h.d., don’t let yourself be taken in by
   >this charlatan.

   Quit with the ad hominem.

   >Et Lydik, comme tu es bete!  Va t’en!

   Do you think it’s intelligent and sophisticated to say "And, Lydik [sic],
   you are so stupid!  Go away!" in French?  Hint: that’s a childish thing to
   say even if you wrote it in Aramaic or Basque.

                                                           Rachel
   —
   "That leaves: shit piss fuck cunt cocksucker mother-fucker and tits (you
   have to say it with *rhythm*).  We could all just add these to our .sigs."
           – Marco Simons on net censorship
8. admin says:

   March 30 at 12:29 pm

   lyd…@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU (Speaker-to-Minerals) wrote:
   >8 units of insulin per day is well below the expected requirements of someone
   >with fully-developed IDDM.  The normal requirement is approximately 1 unit of
   >insulin per pound of body weight (2.2 units/kilogram of body mass).  

   LyDick-can’t you even get your numbers straightened out?

   >=the experts of internal secretion

   >I assume that the above means "endocrinologists."

   Please LyDick-
   we need an interpreter for their post.  Thank goodness you were there
    for us!!

   >Sounds like the doctors in China are about 80 years behind the times.

   No, LyDick-
   I do believe that they have insulin in China; this fact is apparent
   since the child is being injected.  And, they have already figured
   out that the insulin must be injected and cannot be taken orally
   for such a youngster.  Therefore, they cannot possibly be a full
   80 years behind.

   >And checking for urine ketones has a similar problem.  It’s quite possible for
   >someone to have quite elevated blood sugar levels long before ketones appear in
   >significant quantities in the urine.

   This may be true, but LyDick missed the point of this conversation:

   They are correctly checking for ketones by using urine.  It is the
   blood sugar value that needs to be altered from urine to blood, NOT
   the ketone check.  I would suspect that with a child obviously
   having trouble getting started, they would want to be very careful
   to check for ketones as a safeguard.

   >Likewise.  However, all these numbers you’ve provided are well over a month out
   >of date.  One’s insulin requirements can change significantly in a much shorter
   >time than that.

   Being the wonderful internet-doc that he claims to be, I suppose that
   if you provided the latest, up-to-the-minute bg values that LyDick
   could treat your daughter from the U.S. with an appropriate overdose
   of insulin.
   -K
9. admin says:

   March 30 at 12:29 pm

   >At any rate, I am going to keep collecting boners like this that
   >he drops everywhere, and I am going to keep reposting them with
   >the same regularity as Steve Kirchoeffer’s AutoPosting Robot,
   >simply for the edification of newcomers.  These people have a
   >tendency to be taken in by this charlatan, and it is only fair
   >that they be clued in as to what we have here in our midst: a
   >real cookoo.

   >Lydik, you’re through.  Nobody is going to take you seriously
   >from now on, and you can count on that.

   >Michel Martin Devine

   Michel,
   I just wanted to throw in that you have the full support of many
   members of this newsgroup.  I myself will try to help in your quest
   all that I possibly can.  In fact, a few extra boners were in his
   latest post.  I followed up on it, so if you would please, add those
   to your vast and growing collection.
   Thanks,
   -K
10. admin says:

    March 30 at 12:29 pm

    On 17 Jan 1996, Speaker-to-Minerals wrote:
    

    - Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

    > In article <Pine.SCO.3.91.960113185003.10296B-100…@crash.cts.com>, Michel Martin Devine <m…@cts.com> writes:
    > =On 13 Jan 1996, Speaker-to-Minerals wrote:
    > =
    > => In article <binga-1201960043480…@128.125.224.6>, binga writes:
    > => =       Our daughter , less than eight year’s old,  had abdominal pain often
    > => =with poor appetize and had become thin accordingly since august, 1995.  In
    > => =november 17, 1995, she got keton ++++ caused by flu. From november 17 to
    > => =december 14, she had been in local hospital and Beijing Children Hospital
    > => =early and late for curing ill and was diagnosed as Insulin – Dependent
    > => =Diabetes Mellitus ( IDDM ). She is out of hospital now because the illness is
    > => =managed in stable temporarily. In home, she is injected of insulin with 8 unit
    > => =per day and limited of  food with forbidden of snacks and sweet food. Now she
    > => =still feel abdominal pain often, especially when hungry, and her eyes appear
    > => =micro red blood  line even under good and enough sleep condition. She had ever
    > => =got lymphnoditis  in May, 1993 , which was doubted to be inffected by
    > => =streptococcus . After recovered, she feel pain around the knee sometimes.
    > =>
    > => 8 units of insulin per day is well below the expected requirements of someone
    > => with fully-developed IDDM.  The normal requirement is approximately 1 unit of
    > => insulin per pound of body weight (2.2 units/kilogram of body mass).  Of course,
    > => someone in whom the IDDM isn’t fully-developed may still be producing some
    > => endogenous insulin, so the injections need only cover the difference between
    > => the body’s demands and endogenous insulin production.
    > =
    > =
    > =OK, everyone.  This is what I am always refering to as Lydik and his
    > =misinformation, as well as his stupitdity and asininity.
    

    > =He says that an IDDM typically requires 1 unit of insulin per pound
    > =of body weight (read it for yourself above).  A 160 pounder like myself
    > =would therefore be considered average for taking 160 units of insulin per
    > =day!

    > Sorry, I meant 1/4 unit.  My apologies.

    That’s more like it.

    > Now, Mickey, how about next time you post misinformation, you admit it instead
    > of trying to lie your way out of your error?

    Oh yes, I would have expected that from you.

    On a certain occasion or two, when I made a mistake, it DID NOT take the
    constant nagging it took to get you to admit your mistake.  I have always
    been forthright and prompt to straighten things out.

    As for me trying to "lie my way out of my error", that is only apparent
    to YOU because I was defending my position which I believed to be true
    and for which I could provide evidence and logic to be true.

    One thing you have got to get through your thick politically correct
    skull, Lydik, is that just because someone has a different idea than
    yours, THEY ARE NOT LYING.

    Hence forth and forever, everytime you come forward to give someone the
    works in your habitually vile manner, and in so doing proclaiming yourself
    to be the resident guru, the resident censor at m.h.d., I am going to
    repost your own words about the 1 unit of insulin per pound of body
    weight just to show how UNRELIABLE you are.  

    Are you really a diabetic, Lydik, or just an avid follower of the subject?
    I ask you this mainly because no diabetic who owns a vial of insulin could
    fail to see the absurdity in your dictum.  You even said it TWICE, once in
    avoirdupois and then in metric (2.2 units per kilo of body mass).  Truly,
    you don’t know your ear from a hole in the wall (to use polite language
    for mixed company).

    > —————————————————————————
    > I  try  very  hard  to say exactly what I mean.

    I question that.  I don’t think that what you appear to mean should be
    taken in any seriousness at all.  Mainly because it took you over THREE days
    to respond to this asinine error of fact, and only at my constant prodding.

    Lydik, you’re through.  You might just as well as admit it.  You
    set yourself up for your own fall.  Compare yourself with me.
    I have never even remotely implied that *I* was infallible.  The
    information I have posted was placed in the spirit of inviting open
    and fair discussion.  If I were wrong, all I asked was someone who
    could explain rationally the error in my thinking.  But in contrast,
    all you have ever been able to do to refute mine or anyone else’s position
    is to call them "moron" when you are feeling good, or "shit for brains"
    when you are not.  How does that logically support your position?
    It doesn’t, and never will.
11. admin says:

    March 30 at 12:29 pm

    In article <Pine.SCO.3.91.960113185003.10296B-100…@crash.cts.com>, Michel Martin Devine <m…@cts.com> writes:
    =On 13 Jan 1996, Speaker-to-Minerals wrote:
    =
    => In article <binga-1201960043480…@128.125.224.6>, binga writes:
    => =       Our daughter , less than eight year’s old,  had abdominal pain often
    => =with poor appetize and had become thin accordingly since august, 1995.  In
    => =november 17, 1995, she got keton ++++ caused by flu. From november 17 to
    => =december 14, she had been in local hospital and Beijing Children Hospital
    => =early and late for curing ill and was diagnosed as Insulin – Dependent
    => =Diabetes Mellitus ( IDDM ). She is out of hospital now because the illness is
    => =managed in stable temporarily. In home, she is injected of insulin with 8 unit
    => =per day and limited of  food with forbidden of snacks and sweet food. Now she
    => =still feel abdominal pain often, especially when hungry, and her eyes appear
    => =micro red blood  line even under good and enough sleep condition. She had ever
    => =got lymphnoditis  in May, 1993 , which was doubted to be inffected by
    => =streptococcus . After recovered, she feel pain around the knee sometimes.
    =>
    => 8 units of insulin per day is well below the expected requirements of someone
    => with fully-developed IDDM.  The normal requirement is approximately 1 unit of
    => insulin per pound of body weight (2.2 units/kilogram of body mass).  Of course,
    => someone in whom the IDDM isn’t fully-developed may still be producing some
    => endogenous insulin, so the injections need only cover the difference between
    => the body’s demands and endogenous insulin production.
    =
    =
    =OK, everyone.  This is what I am always refering to as Lydik and his
    =misinformation, as well as his stupitdity and asininity.
    

    =He says that an IDDM typically requires 1 unit of insulin per pound
    =of body weight (read it for yourself above).  A 160 pounder like myself
    =would therefore be considered average for taking 160 units of insulin per
    =day!

    Sorry, I meant 1/4 unit.  My apologies.

    Now, Mickey, how about next time you post misinformation, you admit it instead
    of trying to lie your way out of your error?
    —————————————————————————
    I  try  very  hard  to say exactly what I mean.  I’d appreciate it if you’d
    bear that in mind and not try to "interpret"  my  posts  to  fit  your  own
    preconceived notions if I’m posting in a serious thread.  Remember:  If you
    throw a strawman into a heated debate, flames are likely to be the result.
12. admin says:

    March 30 at 12:29 pm

    In article <Pine.SCO.3.91.960113231225.7874A-100…@crash.cts.com>,
    Michel Martin Devine  <m…@cts.com> wrote:
    

    >At any rate, I am going to keep collecting boners like this that
    >he drops everywhere, and I am going to keep reposting them with
    >the same regularity as Steve Kirchoeffer’s AutoPosting Robot,
    >simply for the edification of newcomers.  These people have a
    >tendency to be taken in by this charlatan, and it is only fair
    >that they be clued in as to what we have here in our midst: a
    >real cookoo.

    The automatic weekly posting of the guidelines was the *group’s* idea, not
    my own.  I would never do something so annoying as setting up a robot
    without the explicit consent of the group.  I do it as a directly-requested
    favor to the readership.  This does not justify the kind of abuse that
    Mickey threatens.  

    –
    Steve Kirchoefer
    Naval Research Laboratory
    Washington, DC  20375-5347
13. admin says:

    March 30 at 12:29 pm

    First Speaker wrote:
    >=> 8 units of insulin per day is well below the expected requirements of someone
    >=> with fully-developed IDDM.  The normal requirement is approximately 1 unit of
    >=> insulin per pound of body weight (2.2 units/kilogram of body mass).  Of course,
    >=> someone in whom the IDDM isn’t fully-developed may still be producing some
    >=> endogenous insulin, so the injections need only cover the difference between
    >=> the body’s demands and endogenous insulin production.

    Then followed it up with:

    >Sorry, I meant 1/4 unit.  My apologies.

    Can you cite your sources?  This new number still seems incorrect, at least
    in children.  The guidelines given by our pedi-endocrinologist is a maximum
    of 1 unit of insulin per kilo of body weight. This amount is adjusted downwards
    for the level of control advisable for the age of the child, because, as you
    have previously posted, tight control is not recommended in young children.
    In our case, we have held pretty steady at about .75 unit/kilo for the past
    4 years, with a target range of 125-225 BG’s, for a child from the age of 1 year
    to 5 years.

    Additionaly, based on a lot of anecdotal information, it is more usual than not
    for children to fall into the category of still producing some insulin on their
    own after the initial diagnosis and treatment.  The honeymoon period may swing
    as far as not requiring any insulin at all for a period of time,
    but it is common to see initial dosages in newly
    diagnosed children to be in line with the 8 units/day stated in the original
    posts.
    Again, purely anecdotal.  I would be interested in specific citations.

    Cathy

    ********************************************************************
    * Catherine Finerty Coe                 Email    :c…@esd.nsc.com *
    *  Most certainly my own opinions                                  *
    ********************************************************************
14. admin says:

    March 30 at 12:29 pm

    Cathy Coe <c…@esd.nsc.com> wrote:

    Discussion of insulin requirements deleted..

    Again, purely anecdotal.  I would be interested in specific citations.

    According to Kahn and Weir, most patients with no endogenous insulin
    require doses in the range 0.5-1.0 U/kg per day.

    –
    Charles Coughran
    ccough…@ucsd.edu
15. admin says:

    March 30 at 12:29 pm

    In article <4d7mm1$…@malasada.lava.net>, "Gregg R. Murray" <eas…@lava.net> writes:
    =Unfortunately, I don’t believe you are going to find a cure in this
    =newsgroup.  It seems to focus more on managing the disease day to day.
    

    Actually, the folks in the group also tend to post news about possible "cures"
    (e.g., islet cell transplants, experimental programs aimed at preventing the
    onset in the first place, etc.).  The reason she won’t find a cure here is that
    no cure exists.  Period.
    —————————————————————————
    I  try  very  hard  to say exactly what I mean.  I’d appreciate it if you’d
    bear that in mind and not try to "interpret"  my  posts  to  fit  your  own
    preconceived notions if I’m posting in a serious thread.  Remember:  If you
    throw a strawman into a heated debate, flames are likely to be the result.
16. admin says:

    March 30 at 12:29 pm

    On 17 Jan 1996, Steve Kirchoefer wrote:
    

    - Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

    > In article <Pine.SCO.3.91.960113231225.7874A-100…@crash.cts.com>,
    > Michel Martin Devine  <m…@cts.com> wrote:
    

    > >At any rate, I am going to keep collecting boners like this that
    > >he drops everywhere, and I am going to keep reposting them with
    > >the same regularity as Steve Kirchoeffer’s AutoPosting Robot,
    > >simply for the edification of newcomers.  These people have a
    > >tendency to be taken in by this charlatan, and it is only fair
    > >that they be clued in as to what we have here in our midst: a
    > >real cookoo.

    > The automatic weekly posting of the guidelines was the *group’s* idea, not
    > my own.  I would never do something so annoying as setting up a robot
    > without the explicit consent of the group.  I do it as a directly-requested
    > favor to the readership.  This does not justify the kind of abuse that
    > Mickey threatens.  

    Please note, ladies and gentlemen, that Lydik can go around here at m.h.d.
    and do anything he wants, even write the nastiest E-mail to women to see
    if he can make them cry just for posting a question that is in his opinion
    "dumb".  He flames anyone he pleases using the most vile language.  He
    deliberately twists and distorts everything they say for the purpose of
    confusing bystanders into thinking that he, Lydik, is smart.  There are
    even a few other sadists like Lydik (the S-M man) here who cheer him on.

    But have you ever heard a single word of disapproval addressed publicly
    to Lydik from this Steve Kirchoefer, one of the stalwarts who founded
    misc.health.diabetes?  He would never even think of doing so.

    Yet I am sure that if *I* were to carry on completely like Lydik I would
    never hear the end of it from Kirchoefer.  What I perceive is a form of
    "double standard" around here.  If you are Lydik, it matters not what you
    do.  Lydik must truly be the "Messiah".

    Therefore, my reply to all of Lydik’s supporters (who, by the way, could
    all meet in a phone booth):  You’re nothing but HYPOCRITES.  If you really
    believe what you say to me, you should have been telling it to *Lydik*
    in the first place.  Maybe then he wouldn’t have become the monster
    he is, had he received counselling from his own people.  And nothing like
    what is happening now would ever have started.  But wars are like that.  
    Once they start, there is always plenty of 20-20 hindsight.
17. admin says:

    March 30 at 12:29 pm

    In article <Pine.SCO.3.91.960120175127.25594D-100…@crash.cts.com>, Michel Martin Devine <m…@cts.com> writes:
    

    - Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

    > On 17 Jan 1996, Steve Kirchoefer wrote:
    

    >> In article <Pine.SCO.3.91.960113231225.7874A-100…@crash.cts.com>,
    >> Michel Martin Devine  <m…@cts.com> wrote:

    > Please note, ladies and gentlemen, that Lydik can go around here at m.h.d.
    > and do anything he wants, even write the nastiest E-mail to women to see
    > if he can make them cry just for posting a question that is in his opinion
    > "dumb".  He flames anyone he pleases using the most vile language.  He
    > deliberately twists and distorts everything they say for the purpose of
    > confusing bystanders into thinking that he, Lydik, is smart.  There are
    > even a few other sadists like Lydik (the S-M man) here who cheer him on.

    > But have you ever heard a single word of disapproval addressed publicly
    > to Lydik from this Steve Kirchoefer, one of the stalwarts who founded
    > misc.health.diabetes?  He would never even think of doing so.

    Yes, I remember long discussions about what to do with "our problem poster."
    At that time it was Carl.  However, given the frequency of your posts and
    the relative noise to signal ratio Carl hardly appears to be the primary
    problem.  Constructive criticism is useful, even when abusive.  Destructive
    criticism is never useful.

    > Yet I am sure that if *I* were to carry on completely like Lydik I would
    > never hear the end of it from Kirchoefer.  What I perceive is a form of
    > "double standard" around here.  If you are Lydik, it matters not what you
    > do.  Lydik must truly be the "Messiah".

    Given the current state of affairs, if all you did was carry on like Carl, we would feel
    blessed.
    > Therefore, my reply to all of Lydik’s supporters (who, by the way, could
    > all meet in a phone booth):  You’re nothing but HYPOCRITES.  If you really
    > believe what you say to me, you should have been telling it to *Lydik*
    > in the first place.  Maybe then he wouldn’t have become the monster
    > he is, had he received counselling from his own people.  And nothing like
    > what is happening now would ever have started.  But wars are like that.  
    > Once they start, there is always plenty of 20-20 hindsight.

    You obviously haven’t been reading all of m.h.d. or, for that matter, reading for
    very long.  If you have, your memory is "selective."

    Orville R. Butler
18. admin says:

    March 30 at 12:29 pm

    In article <Pine.SCO.3.91.960117224058.22380D-100…@crash.cts.com>, Michel Martin Devine <m…@cts.com> writes:
    => =He says that an IDDM typically requires 1 unit of insulin per pound
    => =of body weight (read it for yourself above).  A 160 pounder like myself
    => =would therefore be considered average for taking 160 units of insulin per
    => =day!
    =>
    => Sorry, I meant 1/4 unit.  My apologies.
    =
    =That’s more like it.
    =
    =>
    => Now, Mickey, how about next time you post misinformation, you admit it instead
    => of trying to lie your way out of your error?
    =
    =Oh yes, I would have expected that from you.
    =
    =On a certain occasion or two, when I made a mistake, it DID NOT take the
    =constant nagging it took to get you to admit your mistake.  I have always
    =been forthright and prompt to straighten things out.
    

    Mickey, I corrected my mistake the minute it was pointed out.  Don’t blame me
    for the fact that you’re too damned ignorant to know that NNTP is not a full
    transaction-processing protocol, and therefore it may take several days for a
    message to propagate from one site to another.
    —————————————————————————
    I  try  very  hard  to say exactly what I mean.  I’d appreciate it if you’d
    bear that in mind and not try to "interpret"  my  posts  to  fit  your  own
    preconceived notions if I’m posting in a serious thread.  Remember:  If you
    throw a strawman into a heated debate, flames are likely to be the result.
19. admin says:

    March 30 at 12:29 pm

    On 22 Jan 1996, Speaker-to-Minerals wrote:
    

    - Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

    > In article <Pine.SCO.3.91.960117224058.22380D-100…@crash.cts.com>, Michel Martin Devine <m…@cts.com> writes:
    > => =He says that an IDDM typically requires 1 unit of insulin per pound
    > => =of body weight (read it for yourself above).  A 160 pounder like myself
    > => =would therefore be considered average for taking 160 units of insulin per
    > => =day!
    > =>
    > => Sorry, I meant 1/4 unit.  My apologies.
    > =
    > =That’s more like it.
    > =
    > =>
    > => Now, Mickey, how about next time you post misinformation, you admit it instead
    > => of trying to lie your way out of your error?
    > =
    > =Oh yes, I would have expected that from you.
    > =
    > =On a certain occasion or two, when I made a mistake, it DID NOT take the
    > =constant nagging it took to get you to admit your mistake.  I have always
    > =been forthright and prompt to straighten things out.
    

    > Mickey, I corrected my mistake the minute it was pointed out.  Don’t blame me
    > for the fact that you’re too damned ignorant to know that NNTP is not a full
    > transaction-processing protocol, and therefore it may take several days for a
    > message to propagate from one site to another.

    Isn’t it neat that you have found something to hide behind?  I have seen
    you make equally ridiculous statements in the past, but never took the
    time to mention it.  And I have never seen YOU make a unilaterally
    placed self-correction on ANYTHING.  So my reply to your NNTP stuff
    is "sack it and sell it".