I would be interested in hearing about peoples’ experience in converting
from beef/pork insulin to humulin. Any complications?
Thanks,
Leon Browder
–
Leon W. Browder, Ph.D.
Department of Biological Sciences
University of Calgary
Calgary, Alberta Canada T2N 1N4
(403) 220-6787 (Office)
(403) 289-9311 (FAX)
email: brow…@acs.ucalgary.ca
In article <browder-0103952209560…@browder.pm.ucalgary.ca>,
brow…@acs.ucalgary.ca (Leon W. Browder) wrote:
>I would be interested in hearing about peoples’ experience in converting
>from beef/pork insulin to humulin. Any complications?
I switched from NPH to Humulin N about a year ago and have noticed no
difference whatsoever.
Joe Esak
Tucson, AZ
je…@primenet.com
>I would be interested in hearing about peoples’ experience in converting
>from beef/pork insulin to humulin. Any complications?
I was only on beef/pork for about 6 to 8 months after I was diagnosed
eight years ago. When I switched, I had no problems but my doctor told me
that *some* people have more difficulty detecting an oncoming reaction
after switching.
Stephen Ecker
SEc…@aol.com
Senior Software Engineer
Advantage Learning Systems, Inc.
Wisconsin Rapids, WI
Joseph R. Esak (je…@primenet.com) wrote:
: In article <browder-0103952209560…@browder.pm.ucalgary.ca>,
: brow…@acs.ucalgary.ca (Leon W. Browder) wrote:
: >I would be interested in hearing about peoples’ experience in converting
: >from beef/pork insulin to humulin. Any complications?
: >
: I switched from NPH to Humulin N about a year ago and have noticed no
: difference whatsoever.
The problem lies in how brittle a diabetic is. A brittle diabetic is
one who is quite sensitive to getting their level of insulin activity
to just the right level (+ or – 2%). These are typically the most
"insulin dependent" of diabetics. On the other hand, there are many
so-called Type II diabetics who do in fact take insulin who are
quite insensitive to the actual amount of insulin they take, often being
able to vary their dosage by as much as 50%.
Now one of the oustanding features of "humulin" is that it tends
to go off with a bang in the first half of its lifespan, and then
steadily retreat in the second half. For a less than brittle diabetic,
this presents no problem. But for those who are really brittle (and
these are only a single-digit percent of diabetics), this variation in
insulin activity knocks them for a loop. Their blood sugar levels,
when they try to use human insulin, can never stabilize. Such patients
find that animal-derived insulin is much more even in its onset and
duration of insulin activity. These people would be well advised to
stick with what they are using. How does a person know if they are
a "brittle" diabetic? By the fact that the adjustment of their
insulin dose is critical. Too much gives them hypoglycemia, too little
will plunge them into ketoacidosis. These people should not pay any
attention to the fact that more "stable" diabetics can do well on
human insulin. "What’s great for the Russian is death for the
German", as the saying goes. Not everything in medicine is right
for everyone either.
Mickey
In article <3j6895$is4_…@tus.primenet.com> je…@primenet.com (Joseph R. Esak) writes:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
>In article <browder-0103952209560…@browder.pm.ucalgary.ca>,
> brow…@acs.ucalgary.ca (Leon W. Browder) wrote:
>>I would be interested in hearing about peoples’ experience in converting
>>from beef/pork insulin to humulin. Any complications?
>I switched from NPH to Humulin N about a year ago and have noticed no
>difference whatsoever.
>Joe Esak
>Tucson, AZ
>je…@primenet.com
In article <3j6895$is4_…@tus.primenet.com> je…@primenet.com (Joseph R. Esak) writes:
>In article <browder-0103952209560…@browder.pm.ucalgary.ca>,
> brow…@acs.ucalgary.ca (Leon W. Browder) wrote:
>>I would be interested in hearing about peoples’ experience in converting
>>from beef/pork insulin to humulin. Any complications?
>I switched from NPH to Humulin N about a year ago and have noticed no
>difference whatsoever.
Joe,
Are you a Type I or II?
Dave, Dave, put that soap box away, Joe Esak was just answering a question
and he was very kind to do so.
Alright let me put the soap box back in the corner.
Leon, I’ve expounded on that letter I sent you.
When Leon asked his question about differences it was with regard to his
Type I wife, who has been diabetic for 27 years.
The issue for conversion from animal to human insulin is important for
type I diabetics and their basal insulin dose. I tried converting from
pork NPH to humulin NPH. There is a world of difference between them.
Human NPH has a peak at 6 hours wheras pork NPH has a peak at 8 hours.
More of the Human NPH is in the blood stream sooner than 6 hours,
which gives an increased tendency for lows, if you take it for nighttime
basal control at 10 PM. The natural low point being at 3 AM. Most of my
basal control human NPH was used before 4 AM, but I NEED the insulin
between 4-8 AM. This is just the time the human NPH drops from its peak.
Pork NPH hits its peak at 6 AM eight hours after my 10 PM dose and right
in the middle of my peak insulin basal needs aka dawn phenomenom.
YMMV (Your Mileage May Vary) I’m neither a doctor nor
the town bum (c’mon Dave you’ve been accused) ah to dream……
I don’t feel the human NPH lasts the 20-21 hours that pork NPH lasts.
Why manufacturers are allowed to say that it is NPH or Ultralente is beyond
me. They are different drugs, when you run tests on Type I diabetics without
any insulin resistance. Testing Type II diabetics for the efficacy of the two
drugs is not relevant to a Type I population. Type II more commonly have
insulin resistance problems, where the Human insulin will always work
better to treat the patient.
For Pre meal boluses I always use Humulin Regular and I’m waiting for
Lyso-Pro to gain approval.
The scene with Ultralente is more varied, I’ve never tried converting to
Human Ultralente. I was on pork Ultralente for the nine years I was in
the DCCT. My DCCT nurse Mary Larkin, says human Ultralente has a definite
peak and only lasts 36 hours though the pork Ultralente is flat with a very
slight peak and last 48-60 hours.
One of the later posts said only "brittle diabetics" will notice a difference.
Neither I or my doctor would qualify me as "brittle" in any way shape or
form. I have a fearsome dawn phenomenon where I’ll tie/adjust my 10 PM
basal dose vigourously to the days exercise itensity/duration. I could take
the beef/pork NPH as an alternative to Pork NPH, but I’ve never beleived
in changing something just for the sake of change.
A Type I on pork NPH with multiple seperate daily injections of humulin Regular
Dave Carter d…@gte.com
In article <browder-0103952209560…@browder.pm.ucalgary.ca> brow…@acs.ucalgary.ca (Leon W. Browder) writes:
>From: brow…@acs.ucalgary.ca (Leon W. Browder)
>Subject: Conversion to humulin
>Date: 2 Mar 1995 05:10:31 GMT
>I would be interested in hearing about peoples’ experience in converting
>from beef/pork insulin to humulin. Any complications?
>Thanks,
>Leon Browder
Well… sort of. I switched about four years ago and I’ve heard from others
that my experience was not unique. What happened is that it became very
difficult for me to realize that I was low. A few times I had no idea that I
was low until I was starting to pass out. After a few months I guess I
readjusted and either became more aware of my lows or whatever had suppressed
the symptoms disappeared. I don’t know which. Anyway, I know of at least two
other teen Type I diabetics that this happened to. (For info: I’m 20 now and
have had Type I for 13 years.)
- Heather.
On 5 Mar 1995 21:31:01 GMT, David Carter wrote:
>The scene with Ultralente is more varied, I’ve never tried converting to
>Human Ultralente. I was on pork Ultralente for the nine years I was in
>the DCCT. My DCCT nurse Mary Larkin, says human Ultralente has a definite
>peak and only lasts 36 hours though the pork Ultralente is flat with a very
>slight peak and last 48-60 hours.
Either your nurse got her numbers crossed up, or you have failed to
.
remember them correctly
Human Ultralente is specified as lasting "up to 24 hours", but experienced
users report that it isn’t active past 20 hours.
As for animal Ultralente, the timing specs are only "up to 36 hours". It
has never been known to last anything like the 48-60 hours you state.
(I have used this form of insulin for most of my past 30 years of diabetes.)
>One of the later posts said only "brittle diabetics" will notice a difference.
>Neither I or my doctor would qualify me as "brittle" in any way shape or
>form.
I don’t remember stating that "only" brittle diabetics have problems
with "bug" insulin. What I meant is that brittle diabetics should
be advised of the inherent difficulties that "bug" insulin will give
them.
>I have a fearsome dawn phenomenon where I’ll tie/adjust my 10 PM
>basal dose vigourously to the days exercise itensity/duration. I could take
>the beef/pork NPH as an alternative to Pork NPH, but I’ve never beleived
>in changing something just for the sake of change.
Why does everyone keep chanting "Multiple Injections… Better Control",
when if you use an insulin mixture elaborated to give smooth insulin
activity for an entire day and well into the next to overlap smoothly the
startup of the next day’s injection, you can avoid all this nonsense
like "dawn phenomenon"? I take an animal insulin that I have to buy
and import from abroad that runs so smoothly, I scarcely know it’s there.
Yet my bg’s run in what I consider very acceptable levels (below 130 mg/dl).
And please don’t tell me that I’m some kind of exceptional case. When
I take the slop (bug insulin) that you people are forced to take, I
practically die (bg’s running from 50 to 500 and back every day).
You’re just being taken in by the insulin companies (Lilly and Novo) who
are determined to sell you an inferior product. Years ago, both of these
companies used to make and sell here what I now have to get from far
away. Their insulin, when they made it correctly, worked just as good.
The profit motive propels them in their quest to get everyone over onto
this horribly inferior product, "bug" insulin. Bug insulin wasn’t supposed
to turn out like it did… it just happened that way by unforeseen
circumstances. As for the DCCT, all that it showed was that tighter control
yields fewer complications. (People who believed otherwise before the
DCCT were just kidding themselves.) The DCCT did NOT prove that
multiple daily injections were incontrovertibly necessary to obtain tight
control. But once insulin was no longer available in the USA that would
run for an entire day cycle of a person’s life, that is why it became
necessary for multiple injections, not for good control per se. Bug
insulin simply could never be made to last enough past 24 hours. Then
in 1985, Lilly and Novo made the daring move to cut the action of the
animal insulins NPH and Lente down from almost 30 hours to barely 24 so
that the animal insulins would no longer be advantageous over the greatly
shorter "bug" insulins. They did this so that they could get more people
to use the "bug" insulins so that they could recoup their development costs
on this new product (cost: more than a billion US dollars). Also, the
actual production cost of "bug" insulin is much less than for animal
insulin, which does need several purification steps.
So much for the "bug" insulin conspiracy. It is real, and yet so many
diabetics and their doctors have been totally taken in by it.
Mickey
Yes, I’ve had lots of complications. I was on the Beef Ultra Lente for
several years, had the best contol ever (I’ve been diabetic for 36years –
type1) . Now that I have to take the humulin u.l., I have been having
terrible insulin reactions. Awhile ago when I was walking into a store,
my eyes could only see a light with darker colors on the perimieter. This
would last about 30 sec. , go away, and come back again. I was low, had
something to eat, and it went away. I’ve also been low and not even known
it. My bl. sug. would go to about 43 before I realized I was low. I am
currently trying to get people to call NovoNordisk and Eli Lilly to "bring
back the beef". I hope I can reach enough people to make it happen as it
did in Great Brittain.
Sallyt8288
This is sallyt8288 again. I forgot to mention, that I am also getting bad
dreams using this humulin insulin. This is unusual for me and I believe
it is related to the insulin.
In article <3jj1f6$…@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, sallyt8…@aol.com (SallyT8288) writes:
=This is sallyt8288 again. I forgot to mention, that I am also getting bad
=dreams using this humulin insulin. This is unusual for me and I believe
=it is related to the insulin.
That *MIGHT* be an indication that you’re going hypoglycemic while you’re
asleep.
—————————————————————————
I try very hard to say exactly what I mean. I’d appreciate it if you’d
bear that in mind and not try to "interpret" my posts to fit your own
preconceived notions if I’m posting in a serious thread. Remember: If you
throw a strawman into a heated debate, flames are likely to be the result.
Mickey,
I agree 100% with you on mixing various insulins to gain excellent
control. There is no need for taking multiple injections to gain "tight
control," if everyone would just use an animal-based Ultralente. It is
the secret. My 9-year-old daughter has had Type 1 diabetes since 20
months. Contrary to the drug companies’ recommendations, we have been
mixing Humulin R, Humulin N, and Novo-Nordisk Beef Ultralente in the SAME
syringe for years, and it works beautifully. The Beef Ultralente works as
a wonderful baseline insulin and we adjust the other two according to her
meals and schedule. Her doctors are amazed at the results. Her A1C is
always between 4.5 and 5.6%. Her last one was 5.5%. She eats pretty much
what she wants to. And, most importantly, she has NEVER had a
middle-of-the-night reaction.
She takes just 2 shots a day: basically, 4-1/2 Humulin R and 9-1/2
Humulin N
in the morning before breakfast, and 5 Humulin R, 2-1/2 Humulin N, and 10
Beef Ultralente before supper. (There is no need to split up the
Ultralente, since there is no peak). I will put her blood sugar control
up against anyone else’s.
Now, I am really scared about not being able to get the Beef Ultralente
anymore. I have stockpiled about 8 bottles in the refrigerator which
should last until this summer. Then, we will just have to experiment. My
friends’ children who have tried the Humulin Ultralente didn’t have the
same results. I think it acts like a glorified NPH — it still peaks, it
has a much shorter onset, and does not act as long.
You have an interesting theory on the "drug company conspiracy." I
wouldn’t doubt it. It is definitely not to their economic advantage to
continue marketing the animal insulins. Do you think there is a
distributor in the U.S. that could get FDA approval to distribute the
animal insulin from that company in England or elsewhere? Please keep me
informed. I think you have my address.
Thanks.
Dianne B.
This is my first time posting to any newsgroup so please excuse any
inadvertent abuse of the rules. My father was initially set up on
humulin insulin and low blood sugars would hit him like a ton of bricks.
After switching to animal insulin he had much better control and less
lows. He will be travelling to the UK soon so I was wondering if someone
could supply the name of the company in England that is still producing
animal insulin.
Thank you Dave Potter, email to mpot…@uoguelph.ca (my wifes account)
In article <3jq5c7$…@newsbf02.news.aol.com> dianneb…@aol.com (DianneB803) writes:
>She takes just 2 shots a day: basically, 4-1/2 Humulin R and 9-1/2 Humulin N
>in the morning before breakfast, and 5 Humulin R, 2-1/2 Humulin N, and 10
>Beef Ultralente before supper. (There is no need to split up the
>Ultralente, since there is no peak). I will put her blood sugar control
>up against anyone else’s.
Several years ago I was on Beef ultralente — three shots, with one
big ultralente shot in the morning. I found (and later my doctor
verified [too late]) that ultra DOES peak if you give enough of it.
And since it’s ultra, the peaks last a really really long time (I
remember having low blood sugar for a couple of hours regardless of
what and how much I ate!). I fixed this problem by re-distributing
the ultra into two shots and that seemed to do the trick, even though
it’s so long acting (and they work on top of each other). My
understanding is that it’s not a problem until you give too much of
it, and then, *pow*. In any case, probably not a problem for your
daughter, but something you (and she) should probably know.
>You have an interesting theory on the "drug company conspiracy." I
>wouldn’t doubt it. It is definitely not to their economic advantage to
>continue marketing the animal insulins. Do you think there is a
>distributor in the U.S. that could get FDA approval to distribute the
>animal insulin from that company in England or elsewhere? Please keep me
>informed. I think you have my address.
It is interesting, but I’ve changed over to Humulin b/c I had some
pretty bad night (and day) reactions with beef and beef-pork. With
humulin I have had *no* night-time reactions where I didn’t wake up
and I can function much better at a much lower blood sugar level. The
downside (for me) is that I have a much harder time diagnosing when I
actually get low. I don’t think that I would ever go back to
beef-pork, even with the longer acting ultralente… (as a side note,
I stay in pretty good control; avg. blodd sugar around 100-120).
>Thanks.
>Dianne B.
Greg Trafton
(traf…@itd.nrl.navy.mil)
Although the conversion had it’s issues, it was one of the BEST things I
ever did. My control is much better and I feel better, not just ok but
better.
As to the switch, I fel awful for a couple of weeks, almost like I had the
flu. My wife kidded me about my DRUG withdrawl. Maybe it was . . .
Try it. If you’re not comfortable do something else!
Brian D. Lawrence
29 years on the juice
In a previous article, mpot…@uoguelph.ca (Miriam D Potter) says:
>This is my first time posting to any newsgroup so please excuse any
>inadvertent abuse of the rules. My father was initially set up on
>humulin insulin and low blood sugars would hit him like a ton of bricks.
>After switching to animal insulin he had much better control and less
>lows. He will be travelling to the UK soon so I was wondering if someone
>could supply the name of the company in England that is still producing
>animal insulin.
That’s easy, In fact it is rapidly becomming the only company in the world
producing animal insulin (Which is why I have their address on disk)
You might want to make sure that the keeps this address as they are now
testing out mailing direct to diabetics here in the USA.
CP Pharmaceuticals
Ash Road North
Wrexham Ind. Estate
Wrexham
Clwyd LL13 9UF
Tel: 011 44 01978 661 261
Fax: 011 44 01978 666 130
The person to talk to is Tracy Davies, in Export Sales.
How’s that. By the way Their product should be avb all over England with
little or no problem. But while he’s there he might want to give T. Davis
a call to get info on what to do when he can no longer get animal here in
the states
–
John F Davis In Delightful Detroit, Mi. aa…@detroit.freenet.org
In article <3jss6h…@ccshst05.cs.uoguelph.ca>
mpot…@uoguelph.ca "Miriam D Potter" writes:
> He will be travelling to the UK soon so I was wondering if someone
> could supply the name of the company in England that is still producing
> animal insulin.
Well, one of them, at least, is:
CP Pharmaceuticals
Ash Road North
Wrexham Industrial Estate
Clwyd LL13 9UF
Phone: (01978 661261) (From the US, that’s 011 44 1978 661261 – note
the vanishing "0")
NB: I have no connection with them – though they should be paying me
commission, the number of times I’ve given out their address!
If you call them, mention this group, and the
Internet. It’s part of my UK-awareness-raising campaign….
regards,
IanP
–
—————————————————–
Ian Preece i…@dktower.demon.co.uk
IT Project Specialist Ideas for hire.
—————————————————–
I am 19 and have been type 1 for 13 years as well. When I switched to
Humulin about five years ago, I had no difficulties. Being in college
and with money short, I even swithed to Novolin (about half the cost) and
am having no problems. I guess we’re all just made differently.
Brian
On Mon, 6 Mar 1995 HCAN…@macalstr.edu wrote:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
> In article <browder-0103952209560…@browder.pm.ucalgary.ca> brow…@acs.ucalgary.ca (Leon W. Browder) writes:
> >From: brow…@acs.ucalgary.ca (Leon W. Browder)
> >Subject: Conversion to humulin
> >Date: 2 Mar 1995 05:10:31 GMT
> >I would be interested in hearing about peoples’ experience in converting
> >from beef/pork insulin to humulin. Any complications?
> >Thanks,
> >Leon Browder
> Well… sort of. I switched about four years ago and I’ve heard from others
> that my experience was not unique. What happened is that it became very
> difficult for me to realize that I was low. A few times I had no idea that I
> was low until I was starting to pass out. After a few months I guess I
> readjusted and either became more aware of my lows or whatever had suppressed
> the symptoms disappeared. I don’t know which. Anyway, I know of at least two
> other teen Type I diabetics that this happened to. (For info: I’m 20 now and
> have had Type I for 13 years.)
> – Heather.
In a previous article, bolst…@ucs.orst.edu (Brian Bolstad) says:
> I even swithed to Novolin (about half the cost) and
>am having no problems. I guess we’re all just made differently.
You got that stright. Some can not take animal, Others nothing but
Some like nice short quotes to remind you what they are talking about
Some like to quote entire 100 line posts complete with sig files so they
can really run up my online time.
to each his own
—
John F Davis In Delightful Detroit, Mi. aa…@detroit.freenet.org
>Medisense has informed us they do not have any extra calibration sticks.
>However, they said if we can find a box of strips with the same Lot
>Number, we can use that calibration stick. If anyone has a box with the
>matching Lot Number, we sure would be grateful to use your calibration
>stick when you are through with it!
Note: you don’t have to find a calibrator stick with the same lot number. If
you can find one with the same calibration code (i.e. the 3 letter & digit
code found on the strip insert such as "23d") that will do. The sticks
contain no more information than that 3-letter code.
–Peter